The Sun: False and defamatory

thesun46_460

I was deeply shocked today by today’s report, and editorial piece, in the Sun.  It claimed that I had said “It’s fine to despise gay people”, that “being gay is a mental health issue”, and that I had suggested that “homophobia is OK”.  None of these propositions is true, or remotely relates to my views.

I was phoned (as I was driving, and concentrating, at least in part, on the traffic) by the Sun’s deputy political editor Steve Hawkes, who asked about my views on homosexuality.

In the course of a short conversation, I simply made the point that people were entitled to their personal preferences.  It is morally acceptable to prefer heterosexuality over homosexuality, or vice versa.  Most of us prefer one or the other.  So let’s look at the Sun’s claims:

“It’s OK to despise gay people”: How the Sun gets from “It’s OK to have personal preferences” to “It’s OK to despise gay people”, I’m not sure.

“Being gay is a mental condition”.  In about thirty seconds I was able to identify two blog posts in my extensive blog archive in which I make the point explicitly that homosexuality is not a disease.

“Homophobia is OK”.    As a technical linguistic point, I have questioned the use of the term “phobia” in this context, since it has a specific meaning in psychiatry which does not (it seems to me) apply in this case.  But I have also written very clearly (and in the same piece) that prejudice, hostility and violence against homosexuals are wrong, and totally unacceptable.

UKIP supporters will recognise the principle at work here: the mainstream media are engaged in a feeding frenzy against UKIP, and are prepared to twist the facts to suit their agenda.  It seems that prejudice and hostility are alive and well at the Sun.  This journalist’s boss is (I assume) the Sun’s Political Editor Tom Newton Dunn, the son of Bill Newton Dunn, the Lib-Dem MEP whose seat is under threat in the East Midlands.

 

About these ads
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

96 Responses to The Sun: False and defamatory

  1. catalanbrian says:

    I am sure that the Sun will have the conversation recorded, so you will be able to prove exactly what you said.

  2. Right wingery says:

    Didn’t you also say that some rape was more acceptable than others? We now live in the 21st century, Roger. The 1950s called, they want their attitudes back.

    • Brin Jenkins says:

      Not your cheap comment on rape, but I would like the 50,s culture back. Full employment, we made the best of everything manufactured. Made in England was stamped on everything in our house, our first jet airliner the DH Comet was on the stocks, Our Ship yards producing fine ships made from Dorman and Longs steel. Murder was a small statistic and our motor cycles ruled the worlds roads.

      We have been too tolerant of fools suffering from delusions of adequacy, as Winston Churchill once put it.

      Just look around now and ask yourself, do we have a better Country?

      We, have been RAPED

      • Tim Turner says:

        In the 1950s, husbands could rape their wives and domestic violence was not taboo, child abuse was kept secret by the establishment, racism was common, the disabled had no legal protection from discrimination, and people with learning difficulties were commonly labelled as ‘morons’ and ‘cretins’. Homosexuality was illegal.

        Yes, it’s much better now, even though as a straight white man I would have had even more advantages in the 1950s than I do now. I am enormously grateful that I live in a society that is more plural, that has influences beyond the tedious white Christian monoculture of the 1950s. What kind of person wants to go back to such a brutal, repressive, unpleasant way of life?

      • caitlin pearce says:

        Yepp can’t think of anything better thana culture in which people were violently killed for the colour of their skin and it was socially accepted for a woman to have a job. Why on earth would we want a diverse, tolerant culture when we could digress to the 1950s

    • Right wingery says:

      Oh dear, Brin. Oh dear.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        A brilliant rebuttal and full of *it.

        The future might be safe in your hands?

        Great Scott! and this nameless one has a vote.

      • Right wingery says:

        Yes i do. And I will be voting for a candidate to be my local MEP who does not believe that some women deserve to be raped, just because they had too much to drink. Or that it being gay is a choice rather than something that is genetic to them. Of course homosexuality is not a disease, Roger. Who on earth would even consider this! It is also not a lifestyle choice to be sneered at, and certainly not equating to hot beverages.

        Come to think of it, I shall also not be voting for a party that wants to interfere in the labour market by ‘tackling’ flexible employment contracts.

        So, in a nutshell, I will be voting for a modern and responsible centre right Conservative Party, not some 50’s throwback reactionary party of political opportunists and, frankly, unpleasant and rude individuals.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        OK, more of the same will cure our situation?

        I think not, its past time for a rethink on who is fit to govern us. Some have just not passed muster old chap. Sack em with no golden handshakes.

      • Right wingery says:

        When you say ‘cure’ us, what do you actually mean? Besides we now have the fastest growing economy in all of western Europe. If agriculture hadn’t have been decimated by the floods then we would have higher industrial output than at any time since the crash in 2008.

        What do you want to ‘cure’?

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        How’s the balance of payments these days?

        I believe we are living well beyond our means, and producing little from our own factories and importing all our hardware from China. Am I wrong? Why is our workforce mainly unemployed? We have little to trade with now having de skilled and de motivated people. You probably see it differently but I see us staring a bleak future in the face.

        If we don’t make it, perhaps we don’t need it. Printing money is theft from those who saved a little for a rainy day.

      • Belasarius T says:

        Oh dear yourself.
        –“who does not believe that some women deserve to be raped, just because they had too much to drink.”
        Do you leave your front door or car open at night? if you do, it’s your fault if you get burgled. Not entirely your fault, but you share some of the blame. There are some nasty blokes out there, its advisable in this day and age not to get so drunk in the streets that you are open to attack; it’s called responsible behaviour.
        “Or that it being gay is a choice rather than something that is genetic to them. Of course homosexuality is not a disease”
        Have you checked on that? Peter Tachell doesn’t believe homosexuals are ‘born that way'; there is absolutely no evidence of genetic transmission of homosexuality, and the use of the excluded middle does not make your argument. No one has claimed homosexuality is a disease, because that is a medical misnomer. It is a state of mind, and there are those who can testify that they have changed their mind.
        “It is also not a lifestyle choice to be sneered at, and certainly not equating to hot beverages”
        But those who think they have superior intellects can smack down religious people all the time? Those who don’t happen to share your so-called “modern and responsible centre right Conservative” views can be verbally abused and belittled by you via stereotypical comments that never held water the first time they were uttered?
        As the poet said somewhwere:
        “Oh dear, Right Wingery. Oh dear.”

      • Right wingery says:

        Hmm, so how will a UKIP government (which, obviously, we will never ‘enjoy’) resolve the balance of payments deficit? How can any government affect this in a globalised economy other than to try and artificially devalue the currency?

        Or perhaps this is another example of UKIP’s economic interventionism? If it is then UKIP is no better than Michael Foot.

        The rest of your post is factually correct, but surely this is again the consequence of globalisation? There is a reason industry sources its materials from BRICS countries. We are, happily, catching up. Manufacturing is booming in this country under the Tories.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        I agree it is the consequence of Globalisation, but then I’m a Nationalist and hate everything from the Internationalists which is raw Communism.

        What my previous comment implied was more of the same policies could not cure our situation, indeed we have had decades of rubbish Government and deception. Like Einstein remarked on experiments, those who keep repeating the with the same method expecting different results are fools.

        The balance of payments and receipts should be our transparent aim, a country run for the benefit of English people would also be a fine purpose.

        My own view is its probably too late and politics have failed. A Plan “B” is required.

      • Me_Again says:

        Jees you are thick despite all your prognostications…..
        Live in credit. Spend less than you earn. Cut back on non-essential spending -like the overseas aid budget, the 12bn we give extra to the other 3 countries in the UK, the 16bn or more we GIVE to the EU so that it can screw us over some more.

        Without hitting benefits or defence or the NHS that’s about 50-60 bn straight off.

      • Right wingery says:

        You think that internationalism (presumably you mean access to global free markets?) is communist?!

        Conversation over, mate.

      • Right wingery says:

        Aww it’s the venerable Me_Again with his spell checked big words and, sadly, rather less impressive attempts at insults. You do not appear to be as good with numbers, however. Let’s just assume, for a minute, that we can at a stroke wipe off all the budgets you mentioned without supply chain consequences. That is £38 billion. So not the £50-60 billion you ‘calculated’. Did you run out of fingers?

        We have a national deficit of just over £100 billion at the moment. Your fag packet numbers would reduce this to a still rather eye watering £62 billion.

        So please, in future, match you very impressive grasp of the online thesaurus used for that wonderful five syllable word you discovered with an ability to formulate a reasonable argument.

      • Me_Again says:

        Spell checked you sad whinger… some of us know words like that because we speak English and learnt them at school. Nothing wrong with a little sesquipedalian fun as long as you aren’t loquacious too. Perhaps the likes of yourself need to use a thesaurus for such games but alas, not me.
        As to the money, 12bn x 3 =36bn plus 12bn foreign aid =48bn plus 16bn to the EU troughers =64bn by my calculations but I didn’t need to take my shoes and socks off dear boy.

        The deficit stands at about 107bn in fact so slicing it in half or more isn’t a bad start to the game. Fairly certain that some rearrangement of the tax laws in this country could reduce the size of HMRC at the same time as a simplified system would bring in more revenue. Binning the FITs and ROCs, making energy cheaper increases profit and therefore tax revenue but hey what do I know indeed. There’s likely a shedful of other tweaks around but I’m not an economist or even accountant.

        But you, you come on here bleating and moaning about how we are going to let Labour in and I don’t care, because, simply put for those hard of syllables, you are as bad as the other two suspects. It doesn’t make any difference who inhabits that nest of vipers in Downing street because they’re all in the EU trough together. So why don’t you just bog off to your pals on the Huff Puff and leave us poor deluded kippers in peace.

      • Right wingery says:

        Oh and Brin and I were discussing the balance of payments deficit, not the structural or cyclical government budget deficit, Me_Again. Two very different things.

    • Roger Helmer MEP says:

      It’s a bit disturbing, Right Wingery, that I take the trouble to explain that I didn’t say, and don’t agree with, the things the Sun asserted — and then you take me to task for them.

  3. Anne Palmer says:

    Now we know which “SIDE” THE SUN is on.

  4. Brin Jenkins says:

    Exactly Roger, tolerance of others weaknesses is required, but not a total acceptance that it is normal and to be promoted for all of us. I refer readers to the recommendations of the 1926 Frankfurt School, that Homosexuality should be encouraged to break down the status of marriage.

    The abolition of marriage is part of the culture destruction agenda

    http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2012/11/13/the-wests-self-destruction-and-the-frankfurt-school/

    Its worth googling the history and aims of this organisation.

  5. Andy Robertson-Fox says:

    I suppose if it is false and defamatory then the law suit is already being prepared…answering a mobile while driving is clearly dangerous in more ways than one….

    • Roger Helmer MEP says:

      I am indeed consulting on the legal aspect. The trouble with legal actions is that they are hugely time-consuming, potentially hugely expensive (I suspect the Sun has rather more money that I have) and even when you appear to have an open & shut case, things can go wrong in court. But we’ll see.

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        I note today that Clarkson is subject to a piece of digital forensics. I only knew slope to be something that was…umm – sloped/slanted/angled.
        If the Sun has a recording of your conversation it possibly could be that that recording has been forensically…lets say cheaply dirtied? However, I for one don’t know why some of this MSM loves to distort information so eagerly? But of course I am amongst the frightened of this once well respected country…I certainly wasn’t frightened out there on my travels some years ago, but I would be now.

        I wish you well on this Mr Helmer. Sticks & Stones might be it and a few pints down the pub.

      • Me_Again says:

        Sadly, if it were true that Clarkson uttered those words -and I think he did because I was watching at the time- he may not have been aware that US military personnel used the term ‘slopehead’ or ‘slope’ for those indigenous to a part of South East Asia. Perhaps permissible in private for those who suffered under their expert guerilla activities but not for Jeremy who has never smelled burnt powder.

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        @Me_Again says:
        May 1, 2014 at 12:50 pm
        I saw the sloping bridge stuff, but where is the knickers thing? I think there is something of it mumbled on the D. Mail site.

      • Hugh Davis says:

        Roger, did you know you were libelled in a similar manner by Grace Petrie (a Leicester guitar twanger) today on the Radio 4’s The Now Show? (Well I assume you never said that gay marriage is similar to incest).

  6. Sean O'Hare says:

    That must be actionable, but I suppose best ignored.

  7. mike dixzon says:

    I would suggest ” no comment” is the best response to journalist questions, given the current climate.

  8. Ex-expat Colin says:

    I’d almost forgotten that the Sun version of loo paper comes with their cr*p already embedded. That applies to the Times as well. I guess a few more will sink to this kind of thing up to the 22nd and beyond. Normal business?
    It is shameful you have to face this and have to deal with it Mr Helmer. They’ll need to have a record of the call to work out how to accurately transcribe a/any call – clearly didn’t work this time?

    Meanwhile Monckton has had a hard kick at the proposed Windmill installation off the Dorset coast
    The Navitus Array (Dorset):
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/28/gone-with-the-wind-englands-most-important-coastline/#more-108357

  9. Chris says:

    The pro-Tory papers are getting desperate in their attacks on UKIP: Daily Mail, The Sun, Daily Telegraph and The Times.

    They see what UKIP is doing to to the Tories in the polls, and they don’t like it, and more importantly, the British public can see what is happening and are not buying it.

    But, taking a conversation with Roger, and twisting the words around into something he did not say, is going too far.

    • Graham says:

      Cameron isn’t as daft as he appears. This is exactly why he prevaricated in implementing Leveson’s proposals. He who takes on the Press gets it is the neck to parody some paraphrase or other. Of interest is that UKIP, which evidently has the support of a large portion of some newspapers’ readerships, gets such disproportionate flak from them. Clearly, the loyalty of newspapers lies more with one political party or other rather than its readership. Quelle surprise! My expectation is that once UKIP scores well in the EU and/or General Election, newspapers will reconsider their loyalty and align it with where the wind is blowing.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        Graham I think its the National Union or Journalists one needs to worry about. Without absolute condemnation of any growing threat to the EU / NWO a reporter might lose his union membership card and employment.

      • MartinW says:

        Yes, but the fool Cameron instigated the Leveson Inquiry in the first place, and what a farce, what stupidity. He only has himself to blame for the Murdoch press having become antagonistic to the Conservative Party.

  10. Malcolm Edward says:

    This is very aggrieving to have your stated position twisted and contradicted and the resulting falsehood published by a national newspaper in order to denigrate you.
    But the odd thing is that most Sun readers are heterosexuals and are not self-haters and probably prefer to be so. It is only the so-called intelligentsia who are so mixed-up who have a problem with anything less than unthinking support for homosexuality.

  11. Me_Again says:

    Can you sue? I mean the phone call will be retrievable. Don’t they have to be kept for 2 years or something?

    • Brin Jenkins says:

      A commercial lien might be better, not hundreds of thousands but the cost of a sworn statement delivered, giving the named reporter 30 days to respond and answer your hurt and your claimed damages. After that if the rebutal is not complete, or its inadequate the damages claimed become a debt to you. Register this with credit agencies and its complete,

      One must always be lawful and honest in this, act only with honor.

    • Right wingery says:

      Would he want to sue?

  12. Right wingery says:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmX7NNXIAAA9TAB.jpg:large

    Wake up, Roger, it’s all been a bad dream!

    • Maureen Gannon says:

      That is pathetic,
      Yes the nightmare of th EUSSR is the worst dream ever, I have listened to some of the debates they just drone on with lot’s of words very little said.

    • frostyface says:

      Oh nameless one, thou should not infer anything from a photograph, we all know how they can be manipulated, and didn’t I see a picture of a number of Alien MEP’s viewing porn material during a debate? Get Real you are nothing less than an impudent Whinger!
      Not a Winger of the status of Roger or come to think of it my late Idol, Johnny Hancock of Wolverhampton Wanderers!

      • Right wingery says:

        Oh the irony of someone with an anonymous username taking potshots at someone with, err, an anonymous username!

    • Graham says:

      You really are quite an unpleasant keyboard warrior, aren’t you. Trouble is, every post you make is treated with more and more contempt so you face the law of diminishing returns. More posts, less credibility. Unless of course you change tack and engage is rational discussion in a civilised manner. Now, of greater interest, where did I leave my chewing gum?…

  13. Vince says:

    Surely for a story to be false and defamatory it would have to be untrue? If it was untrue then you could sue?
    I don’t expect you will be suing anyone…..

  14. c777 says:

    So far all of their “cheap tricks” have backfired on them, this one will be no different.
    Cheap tricks from cheap people, the “grabbers” have a lot to lose and they know it.

  15. barrymx5 says:

    Those who are about to come 3rd in the Elections and their sad acolytes in the Press are getting desperate Roger. Ignore the poor souls. Everyone else is. They belong to a bye gone age. Don’t be blue. The future’s bright. The future’s. Purple.

  16. Jane Davies says:

    The lower they stoop proves how desperate they are getting…sue them Roger as contrary to a comment made by Chris above there are many people who still believe in the rubbish peddled by some newspapers. A lesson learned? Switch off your phone whilst driving or let it go to voice mail.

  17. Brin Jenkins says:

    It seems my replies are not appearing RW.

    • Right wingery says:

      The world will have to just grin and bear it, Brin.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        This is my third try RW, Internationalism is part of the Communist system, they always sing the Red Flag at Labour Party conferences, and the birth of Communism and the Labour party were very close together, Stalin remarked that Socialism leads to Communism.

        Karl Marx belonged to the Hegel Society, that’s where he honed his ideas for Das Kapital. They sought the way of revolution bringing about the New World Order. First create a problem, when the population screams for action you can stop it, and bring in new legislation that you need for your agenda.

        Please Google Hegal, Marx, Internationalism. Look for old historical documents on property, marriage and religion. All are marked for abolition by a variety of ruses like the promotion of drugs and homosexuality amongst others.

        Hope its not too much!

  18. neilfutureboy says:

    When those in power have no arguments of fact against our policies they can only depend on smears and lies. I’m afraid we will see much more of this.

    • Right wingery says:

      What policies? You don’t have any policies! Look on your website… absolutely no detail whatsoever. Your only policy is to withdraw the UK from the EU, something you will deny the British people of if you facilitate the election of a Labour government by splitting the Tory vote (which, despite all the nonsense from your leader about taking as many Labour votes as Tory, you will do).

      The only other bit of vaguely detailed policy recently was your decision to ‘crackdown’ on flexible working arrangements. One of the most obviously socialist policies one could imagine.

      Tories like me, and journalists like Tom Newton Dunn, are well within our rights to examine the personalities of UKIP because, in the absence of any policy, their character and personal views are all we have to go on.

      • neilfutureboy says:

        Having read what Roger has written here on, for example fracking to provide cheaper power and thus growth, you could not possibly have written that honestly. With your obviously false nomme de guerre perhaps you would like to distance yourself from the even more dishonest Brian who has proven himself an obscene pro-Nazi whore. Perhaps not if this is the standard the Tories now aspire to.

      • catalanbrian says:

        As I said I fear for your sanity but how you can conclude that I am an “obscene, subhuman, lying, murdering, child raping Nazi whore – representative of the level of integrity the labcondems pimping you also aspire too (sic)” is quite beyond me.

      • Me_Again says:

        I think he probably ate something that disagreed with him. Like it’s never a good time to eat if you’re watching the news just in case either Cameron Cleggy and Millipede paste themselves on to your screen.
        Can have the most frightful consequences……..

      • neilfutureboy says:

        Brian you gave been asked to provide evidence for your obscene holocaust denying attack on me (& implicitly also on the other commenter) and have been unable to do so.

        To describe you (& now “Right Winger” who supports you) as obscene, racist, lying, Nazi whores and fully representative of your Labcondem paymasters is simply true.

        I await your apology, or evidence for your lies.

      • catalanbrian says:

        I am rather intrigued as to where you have read anything where I have denied the holocaust. I think that you should keep taking the medication as it is clear that you are imagining things that are not there.

      • neilfutureboy says:

        You are, of course, lying Brian you obscene genocide denying Nazi whore.
        http://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/2014/04/26/actually-current-uk-immigration-policy-is-racist/

        Your post April 28th 3.12

        I await you providing either evidence I & Brian Jenkins are lying (we aren’t) or your apology for being an obscene Nazi whore, prostituting yourself on behalf of an equally obscene LabcondemBBC lying totalitarian establishment.

      • catalanbrian says:

        Are you completely mad? NATO put an end to the genocide being perpetrated in Kosovo. They were not party to any of it

      • neilfutureboy says:

        You are not mad – you are lying. You know perfectly well the genocide was carried out by NATO police. I have invited you to produce some evidence for your obscene Nazi lies or retract them and you have refused to do either. If you were not a Nazi whore you would not continue lying. And if the genocidal LabConDem Nazis you serve were in any way honest they would not be pimping you.

      • catalanbrian says:

        Clearly you have a big problem with reality. If you were to bother looking I think that you will find that any genocide in Kosovo was carried out by the Serbs, although I dare say that the KLA’s hands were not entirely clean. NATO had nothing to do with any genocide, other than to stop it. As for your suggestion that NATO police were involved in the theft of body parts from living people I have yet to hear anything quite so ludicrous. If you wish to believe otherwise you are deluded and absolutely wrong. If there is anyone who is displaying nazi tendencies here I would suggest that it is you, who is prepared to make completely baseless allegations against both me and another commentator on this blog. I suggest that you desist forthwith

      • neilfutureboy says:

        You are, of course, lying – in a manner impossible if you were not a wholly corrupt, racist, genocidal Nazi whore.

        I have looked, Nazi and presumably so have you since you have been asked to provide your evidence that the cleansing, or any of the other Nazi atrocities you say didn’t happen. You clearly know there is no factual basis for your racist lies whatsoever.

        You say I have made “baseless” allegations – provide evidence Nazi. Otherwise you owe me a public apology you subhuman genocide denying Nazi whore, including an acknowledgement that the racist parties pimping you are filth too.

      • catalanbrian says:

        I think that I shall desist from further discussion as clearly you need to seek medical advice before you harm either yourself or others. The end.

      • Me_Again says:

        I can only apologise Brian I have never come across someone so deluded, I would much prefer he was on your side of the EU arguments. However I can assure you that the very largest proportion of UKIP members [like 99.99999%] would have absolutely no truck with his insane rantings. I can only hope that when Roger sees this thread he simple blocks the loon. If winning means having friends like him I’d rather lose -and badly!

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        I spoke with a retired Army Major before he died, he categorically stated that he was ordered to stand down, and not assist Christians being killed!

        He was very disturbed by the experience.

        He resigned his commission over the situation.

        He died of a heart attack at a very young age so it can no longer be verified.

        It’s a conflict we should never have been involved with when General Tito’ s multicultural experiment failed.

        Now this is a matter I feel very uncomfortable with, but it happened, and we were never told the reason for our involvement or the true reasons for the conflict.

      • Me_Again says:

        You probably refer to the balkans action under the UN auspices where WE were not -to our dying shame- allowed to intervene against the Serbs, Bosnians or Croats when they were out causing mayhem. I believe these incidents -on both sides of the religious divide were why we ended up under a NATO banner which allowed us to engage the bastards which we subsequently did at every opportunity. To suggest collusion of any kind Brin puts you in the loony fringe with that idiot Neilfutureboy so I suggest you have a think then wind your neck in.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        Hi Me again,

        I only recall the facts as I heard them and I do believe them to be the truth, but I was not there of course.

        I also served in the forces joining the RAF in 1953. I still think the whole damned action should never have been our concern like most of the others.

      • Me_Again says:

        Be that as it may, if you served then you know how impossible it would be for British forces to do what Neil accuses, that we had to wear blue berets and stand and watch is not because soldiers wanted to, it was because they faced courts martial for disobeying. Only when they could throw away the shitty blue berets could our guys engage either side and then they did.
        Pussy politicians should never have anything to do with war.

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        Hi Me Again,
        I have said more than I intended, and of course orders are orders, disobeying is never a good option. There has however been times, following defeat obeying orders got soldiers hung. I think of the Nuremberg trials!
        I have no argument with you, and it sounds as though you had experience.

      • Me_Again says:

        That we had to stand by [actually it was Dutch Marines who really had it tough, they had to watch at Srebrenica whilst 8000 were murdered -that's a guess- because they were ordered to stand down and they received no backup.] Still they were faced by most of the Bosnian Serb army and it would have been a quick one sided fight had they fought. I would say that many of those 100 soldiers are dead by their own hand now and the others will be forever regretting not opening fire -whatever the orders or common sense told them.
        My younger brother served on Gen Rose’s staff and was there the day they took their blue berets off and ground them into the mud, having faced months of provocations. He was in action just a day later under the NATO auspices as IFOR, and the unit he was visiting ironically was a Dutch armoured unit and it slaughtered a Serb roadblock force, probably with a little more force than was actually necessary, but it was cathartic for the troops. He also felt a weight lift having taken part himself, ironically part of his job was investigating war crimes.

        So how do you reconcile such things with Nuremberg? I guess the Nuremberg does not apply since the orders we are talking about were to do nothing rather than do something. I don’t think anyone was found guilty at Nuremberg of doing nothing.

      • neilfutureboy says:

        The “official” Srebrenica massacre you refer to is a lie. The initially 7,000 then various figures up to 15,000 never happened. In fact almost all the Moslem garrison of 7.000 are known to have reached Moslem Nazi lines. Only 2,000 bodies have been found which closely correlates with acknowledged previous combat deaths.

        However this does exonerate the NATO “peacekeepers”.

        There was genocide at Srebrenica.
        The Moslem Nazi leader, Nasir Oric, showed journalists video, from his extensive home video collection, of him and his mean beheading women, children and old people from surrounding villages. They murdered at least an identified 3,800 civilians. Much of this was done after NATO had officially “disarmed” our Moslem Nazi allies and established a border between the forces. In fact they provided protection to our Nazi allies as they carried out the genocide.

        This was acknowledged by the commanding NATO general, Morrillon, during the Milosevic “trial”, among other places. It was obviously reported only by any journalists who were not obscene, lying Nazi filth with no slightest trace of human decency, which means virtually none of them.

        You may believe that it is your patriotic duty to lie about these things (by refusing to even discuss evidence you make it clear you actually know the truth) but it is not. This is how holocaust deniers have pretended, “nationalist” or political reasons, that Auschwitz never happened and 6 million Jews just disappeared. It is also how future conflicts start – thus right now our obscene genocidal Nazi leaders are trying to work up hatreds and conflict with Russia because of actions in Ukraine which are only 100th as illegal and not 1:100,000th as obscene as what these lying racist monsters are certainly guilty of. There is nothing “patriotic” about helping Nazi monsters put us through yet another needless conflict, nor in suggesting that Putin is not several thousand times more honest than those who shackle us with their lies.

      • Me_Again says:

        Fcuk off Neil you couldn’t find your own ass with two hands and a torch.
        Told you I’m beyond debating with a dickhead like you.

      • neilfutureboy says:

        I believe you have made that point very successfully.
        You would not have to if you didn’t know I was right.

      • Me_Again says:

        Neil I fear you have departed from the realms of sanity. I had you down as very keen but I wonder what is going on between your ears today? What is all this drivel about body parts and ethnic cleansing? Who supposedly did what to whom?

      • neilfutureboy says:

        If your excuse is ignorance you should not call it drivel. Check it out – NATO ethnically cleansed 350,000 from Kosovo (they aren’t there any more so difficult to deny); the carried out massacres such as Dragodan (equivalent to Hilter’s Lidice); they kidnaped and sold thousands, probably 10s of thousands of schoolgirls as sex slaves (Ashdown in Bosnia did the same) & they dissected thousands of living people to steal their body organs (as even the Council of Europe acknowledge).

        The severity of these atrocities (in the last case exceeding Hitler’s) are so obscene that, by definition, every LabConDem MP or BBC journalist, who possesses any slightest trace of decency, has repeatedly public denounced our Nazi leaders. But only every single one who has.

      • Me_Again says:

        As a former member of her majesty’s armed forces I can truthfully say that without any shadow of doubt you are talking such bollocks that I can barely conceive the enormity of it. British forces do not do and would refuse to carry out any orders even remotely akin to the ones you suggest.

        I’m at a loss for words, and that doesn’t happen very often. If you were in the same room I’d be pulling your silly arms off and hitting you with the soggy ends. I sincerely hope you are not a UKIP member or if you are that you are careful to hide your neilfutureboy avatar at any conferences that I attend or I would be forced to wash your mouth out with soap -and I think I’d enjoy it.

        I’m surprised Roger even allows you on this blog, if it were mine I would certainly block you.
        I’m just staggered by your profound stupidity and have to apologise to Brian and right wingery -something I would not do lightly.

        You make me sick. Go away.

      • neilfutureboy says:

        Everything I have said is proven truth.
        If you have any evidence whatsoever that 350,000 people have not been ethnically cleansed; that the massacres, such as Dragodan admitted in Parliament; or the dissections acknowledged by the Council of Europe did not happen you have neglected to give it.

        Perhaps you could also provide your evidence that Auschwitz never happened either.

        Threats of violence, particularly online, would not normally convince that the speaker is reasonable or trustworthy.

        Our government has been guilty of atrocities, less than Hitler’s in numbers but at least matching his in obscenity. Blustering & threats do not change the facts.

      • Me_Again says:

        Last comment to you Neil, you’re a fcukwit and I’d be doing everyone a service just to make you disappear.

      • Right wingery says:

        Obscene pro-Nazi whore?! Roger, who needs enemies when you have friends like Neil?

      • Graham says:

        People like you are one of the many reasons I am now a former Tory voter.

      • Graham says:

        Right wingery, you say of UKIP, “What policies? You don’t have any policies! Look on your website… “. Well, I had a look at the Conservative party’s website and guess what? No policies listed. Lots about a “long term economic plan” which is repeated ad nauseam (no thesaurus required) but no policies, no section pointing to policies, no mention even of policies.

  19. decoskin says:

    Such a shame people can get their point across without resulting to insults …… lowest common denominator..

  20. Mike Stallard says:

    Emily Mattress on Newsnight last night gave the game away. To her UKIP is simply a reminiscence of the 1950s. It is full of old people wanting their youth back.
    And to some extent this is true.
    What matters however are eternal things. Habeas Corpus (European extradition warrant), trial by jury (not there in European court), a Parliament where the Ministers (Commissioners) are held to account publicly and where their “election” is not rigged, a Commission which is unelected and unaccountable – all this matters a lot.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      I have not been able to control myself having seen the Mattress word…never mind.
      Anyway, when Mr Helmer gets to turn the lights out at the EU unelected place could he fish out the lorry load of accounts that had not been signed off please.

  21. DougS says:

    I can’t imagine how upsetting it must be for you Roger, to be so viciously and wrongly attacked in the national press.

    Taking the wider picture however, this will, like all such current frenzied attacks on UKIP, prove to be massively counter-productive and will have the effect of reinforcing the resolve of existing UKIP voters as well as recruiting many more UKIP voters and members.

    I thought that the Europhiles had learned their lesson from previous mud-slinging episodes, but it appears not.

  22. Jane Davies says:

    I think the comments here have become too heated. Please call a truce and agree to disagree as this tooing and froing and use of ‘bad’ words is just going to go round and round in circles. Go and cool off boys…have a beer and move on.

    • Me_Again says:

      Apologies Jane, I had not realised we were dealing with such a loon, maybe a moon landing denier as well? Please forgive my lapse of language, I can assure you it is reserved for the most loathsome of creatures.

  23. DICK R says:

    Homosexuality must be mental health issue ,any lesson in biology can confirm that
    sodomy has no function other than the gratification of the perverts who indulge in it.

    • neilfutureboy says:

      Political blogging has no biological function but I find it gratifying. Live & let live – a good dictum which the gay mafia used to support until they were powerful enough.

    • Right wingery says:

      Tell me, Dick R, are you simply trolling or, if not, do you vote UKIP because you believe the likes of Roger Helmer espouses that view of homosexuality?

    • Me_Again says:

      Dogs do it so I don’t suppose it is mental. Like all things in nature there are exceptions. In nature such an exception does not pass its genes to the next generation. Therefore because this exception keeps moving forward with the generations instead of dying out, there must be an alternate explanation to genetics. The usual alternative explanation to genetics is behaviour. After that I am not qualified to comment other than to say, as libertarians we should be in favour of choice and therefore must support the right of homosexuals to choose to be that way.

      This does not however mean that we have to promote the practice in any way shape or form or, give the misleading impression to children that such activity is anything other than unusual, but equally we should not discriminate against such folks or treat them in a condescending manner. In short we should ignore it as not being relevant to any particular conversational topic unless specifically raised.

    • themanontheclaphamomnibus says:

      And the fact that LGBTQ+ people can enter into stable, monogamous, long-lasting and, above all, loving relationships some of which may well be better than some heterosexual relationships. Homosexuality does not equal male-male or female-female sex just as heterosexuality does not equate to male-female sex. That is far too simplistic a definition and disregards the great numbers of celibate people who may be any sexuality. If you believe that a relationship is about nothing more than ‘gratification’ you are a very sad individual indeed. As a gay person I find your words personally insulting; especially the use of the word ‘pervert’ which, used in this context, is incredibly homophobic. I am 17 and am still a virgin yet I know I am gay – does that make me a pervert? Your comment has achieved very little besides exposing your astounding ignorance.

  24. search says:

    You made some good points there. I checked on the
    web for additional information about the issue and found most individuals will go along with your views
    on this site.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s