Fraser Nelson please note:

 

A managed immigration policy would facilitate asylum

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Generally speaking I have a high regard for journalist and commentator, Fraser Nelson, who is frequently a beacon of common sense.  However I did feel that a piece he wrote for The Telegraph could perhaps have been a little more nuanced.

In it, he called for Britain to follow the lead of Australia, and offer asylum to four thousand Iraqi refugees.  He made a very strong moral and emotional case for doing so.  We subsequently had an exchange on Twitter, which I reproduce below.  However it’s not always possible to present a complex issue in 140 characters, so forgive me for addressing it at (slightly) greater length.

First, the exchange.  My first Tweet: “Memo to Fraser Nelson: The reason it’s difficult to welcome Iraqi asylum seekers is that we’re already overwhelmed by ‘EU citizens’”.  Fraser’s reply: “Welcoming 4000 Iraqis (as Australia has) would make a material difference? Really?.  And my response: “A thousand here, a thousand there, and pretty soon you’re talking real numbers.  You imagine it’ll stop at 4000?”

I think that Fraser here has uncharacteristically missed my point (although that may be my fault for failing to make myself clear).  I’m not arguing that we should heartlessly leave Iraqi Christians to their fate at the hands of “The Islamic State”, so-called (although “Band of Brigands” might be a more accurate term).  I’m arguing that if we had a managed, orderly immigration policy based on numbers and skills, it would be far easier to cope with hard cases and emergencies within an overall envelope in terms of actual numbers.

In any case, where does Fraser get his 4000 from?  It seems to be simply a reference to the number admitted by Australia.  Where is the moral justification for saying “We’ll take these four thousand at risk of their lives, but we’ll refuse the next four thousand who are also at risk of their lives”?  I apologise in advance for a well-worn cliché, but this sounds like the thin end of the wedge.

Fraser himself quotes the number of Christians in Iraq under Saddam Hussein, at 1.4 million.  Many will have left already, but many (presumably) remain.  All are at risk.  Where do we draw the line?  And not just Iraq.  There will be Iraqi Christian refugees in Syria (and Yazidis — let’s not forget them — reports say eighty Yazidi men have just been shot by ISIS for refusing to convert to Islam).  Do they not have an equal claim?

In fact according to ‘World Watch List’ there are fifty countries around the world where Christians are persecuted, including fourteen were the persecution is ranked “extreme”.  Do we discriminate in favour of Iraq and against the other forty-nine?  Or do we just open our doors to all comers?

And beyond the persecution of Christians, we have other religions, other reasons for persecution.  Then we have the victims of natural disaster, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, droughts.  I’m sure that Fraser could write a heart-wrenching polemic demanding their admission too, every time DEC runs an appeal.  There is in effect almost no limit to those who might make a good case to come to Britain.

I agree that the example of Iraq is an egregious case.  I agree that we have an element of responsibility, both for having drawn the artificial borders, irrespective of ethnicity, aspirations and tribal loyalties, which have created an unstable Iraq, and for the botched intervention that led to the present problems.

So to say it again: my point is not that we should shrug off that responsibility (though we should handle it with care, and avoid creating precedents).  My point is that we need a managed immigration policy, and then emergency and humanitarian admissions can be accommodated within that policy.  Say we had a cap of 50,000 net immigrants a year.  In general, they would be selected on economic grounds — those with the skills and experience needed by British industry (and the NHS).  But we could say “This year, we make an emergency admission of 4000 Iraqi Christians, but we reduce the regular figure to 46,000”.

The country would still be making an economic sacrifice (on the assumption that — generally speaking and on average — those selected for asylum might not meet the skills criteria applied to other immigrants).  But it would be a sacrifice that we made with our eyes open, and for good moral reasons.  And it would allay fears that immigration was running out of control — as it is today.  It would allow us to make the right moral choice without inflating the overall numbers.

 

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73 Responses to Fraser Nelson please note:

  1. Christopher Browne says:

    Perhaps it would be better to avoid tweets, after all our enemies will use them out of context.

    • Me_Again says:

      Sounds like you have a similar aversion to the limited ‘Tweet’ system as myself Chris.
      Even one as accurate, concise and clear as Roger has a problem with that degree of brevity it would seem.

      When you consider how the likes of catalanbrian can misshape and misinterpret Roger’s longer expositions it seems to be asking for it to blurt in so few characters.

      I keep telling my lot not to tweet but to read the tweets. Snipermode……..

  2. Me_Again says:

    Why do people have to be immigrants? Why can’t they work for a few years then go back whence they came? Perhaps some do. It would be nice if we had the true figures for in/out migration, but we already know that they use a system designed for guesstimating tourism so it isn’t actually based on fact at all.

    • Right wingery says:

      Why should they? Surely you emigrate somewhere to start a new life in a new country. Why should someone who moves to the UK, works hard and pays his/her taxes be then obliged to ‘go back home’ when people like you decide that their face doesn’t fit?

      This country should welcome all the talent it gets with open arms. Immigration is, on balance, very good for this country. It is a measure that sets us apart from our international competitors. As well as providing us with significant ‘soft power’ to influence international affairs far beyond any military reach.

      • Me_Again says:

        Total tosh as usual. I did not say they had to go back I wondered why they don’t when they’ve earned a sackful of loot which would make them a local ‘rich person’ in the case where they come from a poorer country.

        Besides all immigration should be by invitation and were that the case it wouldn’t be a problem. In fact if that were the case we wouldn’t have an issue especially IF all jobs had to be offered to UK citizens first – as others do. Instead we have jobs solely advertised in EU countries which are not available to UK citizens

        “This country should welcome all the talent it gets with open arms” again you’re disingenuous.
        Talent yes, unskilled workers should be totally by work permit because we have plenty of our own -some of whom use immigrants as a reason for not having a job. Many however cannot get a look-see in local low paid jobs because they are eastern European ‘closed shops’. I know of at least three examples locally and no doubt there are many more. Greedy employers who pay lower than minimum wage, technically, because of ‘deductions’ are rife in Lincolnshire and along the Humber bank both sides. Some of these people end up on £3 and hour when they have had their ‘deductions’ taken into account.

        Mass immigration as a result of EU free movement has set the case for industrial relations back a hundred years, and is still ongoing. It undermines the very fabric of our society. In the past immigration has been at a low rate, and well spread out apart from the odd sudden ‘event’ caused influx. This massive influx over the last decade and a half just beggars belief and beggars many indigenous folk who find themselves displaced by people who will work longer for lower wages.

        If you can’t see that then you are part of the problem.

      • catalanbrian says:

        Count me as part of the problem, then. It is always easy to blame minority groups for our economic and social problems. Adolf Hitler and the Nazis did just that, (just swap the word ‘immigrant’ for ‘Jew’ ‘gypsy’, ‘homosexual’, ‘disabled’, ‘people not like me’ or any other easily identifiable minority group within society) and they came up with a simple solution. Perhaps that is what you want, but rest assured, it is not what I want.

      • Me_Again says:

        Aah Brian you cannot begin to realise just how predictable your little rants are.
        I’ve always counted you as part of the problem Brian because you are a europhile who will swing in whatever direction he sees best suits the EU.

        Picking on minority groups? There you are again, believing your own propaganda. I don’t blame any legitimately present non UK national at all. I have no doubt it seems like a grand plan to come here and work. No Brian, my problem is with the complete morons that got us into the EU and subsequently, despite knowing the true purpose of it, have carried on undermining the fabric of their own nation. Mass unskilled immigration is part of the grand plan. These people are supposed to be our representative politicians but they lie, steal and cheat to prevent their true purpose from coming to light.

        In that regard you are of course very much part of the problem Brian.

      • catalanbrian says:

        Your problem is that you are deluded enough to believe that there is a great conspiracy by those who disagree with your own pathetically narrow viewpoint. Get it into your head. There is no “grand plan”

      • Me_Again says:

        NO grand plan? Depends I suppose on whether we are talking about the same grand plan. Be surprised if we were.
        The one I refer to is Europa. It is no secret that TPTB are angling for and having been working towards a united states of Europe. The method they use is in the acquis communautaire as you well know.

        If that isn’t a ‘grand plan’ then pray tell what is?

      • catalanbrian says:

        What? The acquis communautaire is just a listing of all legislation, court decisions etc. that form the basis of European law. I cannot see that it is likely to contain any grand plan. However, as you have clearly read this vast document (I have not), you are clearly better informed than I am. Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out for me the relevant parts.

      • Me_Again says:

        [sigh] The phrase ‘ever closer union’……..[sigh]

      • catalanbrian says:

        Oh dear, bogeymen around every corner.

      • Me_Again says:

        You may call them ‘bogeymen’ Brian, but I couldn’t possibly comment on that………..

      • Right wingery says:

        ‘and beggars many indigenous folk who find themselves displaced by people who will work longer for lower wages.’

        But Me_Again, no-one is disputing the evils of modern day slave trading of eastern European migrant labour. This is a legal issue, however, and should not form part of the immigration debate as it is simply (though despicably) a case of law breaking.

        I’m always curious by the assertion that ‘indigenous’ folk should be given preferential treatment. Surely UKIP believes in employers able to take advantage of quality employees to further their businesses? This is call free markets, and is something that any right thinking conservative should believe in.

        Why should an employer put up with lazy and unpunctual ‘indigenous’ workers when he can have reliable and enthusiastic immigrant ones?

      • Me_Again says:

        Firstly I am not and never have been a conservative and I do not espouse many of their ideas and ideals. In the same vein I am not and never have been a liberal democrat nor a socialist. I approve of ideas from a variety of of sources based on their merit not their genesis. I am a libertarian and would prefer fewer rules BUT when regulation is deemed feasible, enforcible and will likely provide a solution, then I’m all for it.

        You are correct in that the eastern european slave trade is not in itself an immigration problem, it is merely a symptom of a non-thought through policy. However the EU’s trans border labour policy ids the direct cause by allowing free movement.

        Many countries operate a system whereby a job has to be offered nationally prior to being offered internationally, America being a case in point. Over there if you want a permit to work more than a year you need to demonstrate that no local can do the job as well or better than you. That would be a bit extreme but there are more countries around the world that take this approach than the mere 28 in the EU that don’t. I rather think the Swiss regret not retaining that facet to their residency and work laws, still they have recently binned the whole pile of EU nonsense so there’s hope for them.

        As to the quality employees bit, disingenuous to the last, the ones I refer to, as you well know, are not the ‘quality’ employees rather the slaves we referred to earlier.

        Free markets are not quite the question here, freedom to import cheap slave labour is hardly a free market economy. As to the lazy and unpunctual bit, again disingenuous, as no employer has to put up with lazy and unpunctual employees, be they be British or from eastern europe.

        I think it’s a bit excessive to import slave labour to counter ‘lazy and unpunctual’ British workers, rather sack them and get ones which are not lazy and unpunctual -unless you are suggesting that all British workers are lazy and unpunctual?

      • Jane Davies says:

        Here in Canada we have what is called the ‘temporary foreign worker program’ (TFW) although whilst here the TFW can apply for permanent residency, the TWF has to leave after a set time, I think two or three years. Firms have to convince the government that they cannot recruit Canadian citizens before being allowed to do this. Recently it was discovered some companies, like well known fast food chains, were sacking Canadians and employing TFW’s because they work for less money so the rules have been tightened up. On the whole this scheme works well and the immigration department just refuses permanent residency for those not reaching the required status in the points system and they have to return from whence they came once their time is up.

      • Me_Again says:

        Thank you Jane. I was beginning to think Whinger and Brian had somehow locked you guys out. I thank you also for the most welcome and excellent information regarding the Canadian system.

        Seems clear to me that the only people who don’t want sensible immigration policies are those with either an ulterior motive [EU] or those who profit from the lack of them.

      • Brin jenkins says:

        Why should your view prevail? We have never been asked and its working to a long term agenda you seem to be unaware of.

      • Me_Again says:

        Brin don’t say that mate. If you even suspect that there’s an agenda, then apparently you’re mad and sit around in you’re underpants or something, according to the whinger. I shouldn’t provoke him, who knows what else he might think we do like wearing a pair of high heels and doing a ‘Dick Emery’ or something……………..

  3. DICK R says:

    We have had enough of bloody immigration does our race count for nothing , people are homeless, unemployed, denied their rights, denied free speech, just to facilitate more immigration
    If UKIP came out against more population displacement and the denigration and dispossession of the indigenous population they would not be counting their votes but weighing them.

    • Right wingery says:

      And what race might that be? You are aware that you are very likely the 5th or 6th (or maybe more) generation of immigrants yourself?

      Surely you realise that this country is shaped by immigration?

      And I think that policy was tried by the BNP. It didn’t work very well for them.

      • Me_Again says:

        I’m more in accord with you over this. Race is irrelevant, nationality is what is pertinent.
        This country has not been shaped by immigration, although in the past the rate of influx has been low and those that come only too happy to integrate and become English/British, they are not the ‘shapers’ you seem to think. We have always welcomed skilled persons, but welcoming masses of unskilled workers does not aid the economy especially when you have billions paid in tax credits.

        My own great grandparents were from both France and Holland. My great grandfather was an engineer who came to help drain the fens of Lincolnshire, my great grandmother was a refugee from a religious pogram against protestants in Basque France. Her father sailed his trawler across with all his family and eventually moved around to Boston.

        So you paint people who question EU style immigration as either racist or xenophobic which of course is total tosh. We just want a sensible controlled movement of people, talent always welcome, unskilled folks as required and temporary basis -all with health insurance.

    • catalanbrian says:

      A typical poisonous and nasty xenophobic viewpoint that UKIP pretends it has no truck with.

      • Me_Again says:

        Brian if I am in opposition to you then I know I’m on the right track, so thanks for confirming that.
        “Mild or even moderate xenophobia is a natural human condition eased and potentially even eradicated by contact BUT emphasised, if the contact proves negative.” You should check out a little psychology instead of spouting propaganda but hey that would involve thinking and you don’t ‘do’ that you just spout…….

      • catalanbrian says:

        But not the rubbish that you do

      • Me_Again says:

        …oh sage answer Brian, sage.
        1-0, I think.

  4. George Morley says:

    Ahem…
    Had you thought of asking Tony Blair what steps we should take ?
    Hmmm… maybe a bad idea !

  5. Richard111 says:

    I think our humanitarian attitude is very helpful for the ‘Islamic State’ as it removes a few possible trouble makers (to the ‘brigands’), and facilitates the insertion of ‘a fifth column cadre’ into the UK. How could you tell? Pork sandwiches at the airport won’t work.

  6. Right wingery says:

    Roger – you must be well chuffed with the sort of people on here purporting to be UKIP’pers. First you have DICK R, who believes in an unquestioningly xenophobic (or perhaps charmingly eccentric, depending on who you seem to believe) policy against different races.

    Then you have the mercurial Me_Again, who gives every impression of being some paranoid loon rocking backwards and forwards in his studio flat virulently tapping away at his keyboard in his underpants when anyone has the temerity to disagree with what he has to say. Who believes that there is some grand plan to create some mythical ‘Europa’ state, no doubt as a christian competitor to the Islamic State.

    What a really charming bunch of followers you have, Roger!

    • Me_Again says:

      Plainly he’s fortunate to have you commenting on here whinger, I mean your erudite prose and incisive arguments are winners for anyone but those who sit around in underpants [apparently].

      As to your asinine remarks regarding the grand plan, you must be about the only one who doesn’t know -or perhaps you pretend you don’t know?

      I have no idea how you managed to blend in Christianity and the Islamic state into that little diatribe of yours, but well done!

      As to charm, well you’re the bizz….plainly.

      • Jane Davies says:

        It takes all sorts and we are all allowed our opinion…for now. Soon though our freedom of speech will be a thing of the past and the UK is fast heading down the road where one is not allowed free speech for fear of hurting the feelings of incomers. Just think how stultifying it will be if we were all the same. It’s part of life’s rich tapestry and I suspect Roger enjoys the diverse mix of followers he and UKIP have.

      • Me_Again says:

        I never mind someone having another opinion, it only gets me when I’m not allowed to have mine and the person that denies it doesn’t argue, just insults.

        As you say, it takes all sorts, but I prefer liquorice -which incidentally is an anti-inflammatory. Sadly that doesn’t include the Bassetts kind.

      • catalanbrian says:

        If you were to reread your various postings I think that you will find that the insults generally emanate from you.

      • Me_Again says:

        You keep repeating that to yourself Brian……………

    • DICK R says:

      What is xenophobic about loathing what the left wing filth like Blair did to this country in a few short years, there are areas of our major cities that have been turned into third world dungheaps .

      • catalanbrian says:

        Your words say it all.

      • Right wingery says:

        Far be it for me to defend Blair, but to use the sort of language you do, rather than qualifying it with rational debate, does two things. It makes you look mouth frothingly weird, and makes Me_Again look slightly more normal.

        The real issue is the lack of EU migratory transitional controls introduced in 2004. Most of the really ghettoised parts of this country (and there are a few) are as a consequence of non EU migration from Africa and Asia.

      • Me_Again says:

        Tell that to the Asian community who complained about the Romanians…….
        Your true europhillic colours shine through in this sort of debate Whinger. Only a true convert to the cause would even attempt to defend the indefensible. Admittedly the worst ghettoised places have had decades more practice BUT xenophobically they stick together anyway and no one minds that, there are eastern european communities arising as we debate, and they in best xenophobic tradition can’t stand each other. To a Latvian a Pole is a someone not to be trusted unless the choice is between a Pole and Bulgarian and so on. You moan at the indigenous population saying that we don’t want the influx and call us xenophobes but won’t even contemplate the fractured nature of the incoming hoards. I think you’re just a greedy businessmen hell bent on importing as many cheap workers as possible to line your bulging pockets.

      • Right wingery says:

        Didn’t your mother tell you it was rude to interrupt other people’s conversations, Me_Again?

      • Me_Again says:

        Doesn’t seem to bother you….. Oh of course. To a europhile everything anyone else does or says is wrong, but anything they do or say is ok.
        There’s probably a directive to that effect somewhere in that mausoleum in Brussels.
        2-0 I believe.

  7. I’m sorry about the ascerbic tone of some of this debate. But it is surely clear that this country is entitled to control immigration, and would be wise to do so, as many other countries do. We need a managed immigration policy based on numbers and skills. It is simply perverse to suggest that such a policy is racist or xenophobic.

    • Right wingery says:

      What about Ting Tongs?

      • catalanbrian says:

        They are OK, but only if they are UKIPpers and certainly only when out of earshot!

      • Me_Again says:

        When I lived in Hong Kong I was referred to as a ‘Gweilo’ by those who wished to talk in such a disparaging way about foreign persons. Equally disparaging and equally dissonant was what they’d jokingly call the Chinese up in the Happy Valley sports club, ‘Bongs’. This is actually not insulting but equally disparaging since it merely referred to the preponderance of persons surnamed ‘Bong’ in the HK telephone directory a bit like Smith, whereas Gweilo variously meant, ‘white hairy pig’ ‘white fat hairy pig, or just foreign devil. That is unless you had red hair in which case you were Lau wei Gweilo, which is all of the above prefixed with red haired and means you are the very worst kind of white man. Meaning varies depending on the prefix characters as well as the suffix characters, whether written or spoken.

        As you can see both terms are disparaging and only the Chinese is insulting since it aims at physicality. These kind of things are what the PC brigade skip over when aimed at white people or even UK citizens, since foreigners couldn’t possibly be racist could they.

        A rather nice Nigerian haematologist left the place I was working at and went down to London to work. I asked why he was going. He simply said I have two daughters at the age where they are looking at boys with too much interest, I can’t stay because there are not enough Nigerian boys up here and I won’t have them marry a white. I have to say you could have knocked me down with a feather, I mean I’d worked with the chap for about 4 years at that point and never a hint of the underlying racism. He wasn’t born here but had come across a a newly qualified doctor and lived here for 25 years or so. He had adapted but had not integrated.

        A Pakistani anaesthetist of my acquaintance would occasionally have a rant about treating women or being asked to interpret for women who could not speak English. He was adamant that they should learn the language and customs. After he got married I chanced to ask if his new wife, whom he’d brought from Pakistan, would be taking English lessons. He snorted and said no way. I want to keep her so she cannot communicate with anyone but someone from Pakistan.

        My English friend of Sierra Leonian ethnicity told me at a planning meeting that he was disgusted with the notion that people could just come here and without work claim benefits. He said my father and mother both worked all the hours God sends in order to keep a house and put food on the table and send us to school. They no more thought of asking the state for help than they would throw litter in the street. He was disgusted with the notion. My English but Bangladeshi origin secretary blurted that she didn’t want any more immigrant in the country from anywhere, after she heard something on the BBC news, I was astounded at the out burst and it transpires that her family had discussed just this topic and only wanted people to come who were invited and didn’t want any penniless scum to roll up and get help without working for it. Her husband and an import from Bangladesh, had tried to break away from the two families restaurant businesses and took contract work at a local crisp making factory. he was doing quite well and hoped to get a permanent job, become a line supervisor and work his way into management. Smashing bloke, incidentally I attended their wedding, anyway it all started going pear shaped between 2008 and 2010 as eastern europeans became more and more common at the factory. She came to work one day very upset saying he’d been told by the agency that he wouldn’t get anymore work there because he could not speak polish or Lithuanian and the men resented it when told what to do by a ‘Paki’. I was astounded. There are many more stories that I know which illustrate racial disharmony from the other perspective, whilst always unnecessary, it is invariably a two way street and more to the point, it illustrates preconditioning [xenophobia], which as I’ve always maintained can only be utterly banished by integration, familiarity and mutual respect. Therein lies the problem here today. The majority white people in many places feel that they are the ones who must always make the concessions and never complain when their way of life is turned upside down and that they must accept alien ways and values as their own.

        This didn’t happen many years ago because when people came then, they came with the notion of earliest integration possible, to become more British than the British themselves as quickly as possible. It stopped happening when mutli-culturalism [a dead idea according to Mrs Merkel and David Cameron] forced the locals to bend their knee and told the newcomers it was fine and dandy to behave as if in their home country and please to import a little of their port of origin……

        Living in Spain, I am certain I feel certain that you will have encountered the xenophobic tendencies yourself but directed at you . Sometimes in very subtle ways and sometimes overtly, no matter how well you speak Spanish with a Catalonian twang. When holidaying there in the 60′s, before the rush, I chanced to talk to some young Catalonian boys who explained their desire to be free of the Spanish yoke, I at 14 was fascinated, they bore no resentment to me and seemed happy to educate me about how oppressive the Spanish were…

        Anyway, I have no doubt you and whinger will have great fun ripping this dissertation apart, have fun.

      • catalanbrian says:

        So it’s OK to be racist and xenophobic because others are. That’s alright then.. I can’t be bothered to rip it apart, as it does that to itself and your choice of words throughout tells me everything I need to know.

      • Me_Again says:

        I clearly state that I disagree. However being wordly wise and having gone beyond your little community in Spain I recognise that racism/xenophobia -whatever trite expression you use- can only be defeated by inclusion and integration. The examples I gave were of people who are the ones held up in Godlike innocence but in reality are likely to have backgrounds which don’t tolerate strangers well.

        As I said, you will choose, as always, the worst possible spin and then spin it again. plainly I have travelled further and interacted more with more different cultures, races and countries than your little mind can cope with. I accept nothing, I merely state reality.

      • Right wingery says:

        You must have been really disappointed that she apologised, then.

      • Me_Again says:

        ??eh?

  8. Jane Davies says:

    Wow, Me_Again I wish there was a ‘like’ button on here as on facebook! During my years working in the NHS I came across female patients from Asian countries who had to be accompanied by a male family member to interpret my instructions and I often wondered why these women didn’t learn English. Later I realised it’s a form of control….keep the women in their place, in the home looking after the men and in ignorance of what their lives could be like living in a western country. This of course is still happening and shouldn’t be tolerated in the UK.

    • catalanbrian says:

      Jane, I have spent many years working overseas and now live overseas in a non English speaking country. The British wives in the various places in Africa where I lived learned not a jot of the local language, not because their husbands wanted to control them but because there was neither encouragement nor need to speak the local language, and I suspect that idleness on the part of these Asian women is the principal cause of their lack of language. I agree that people should try to learn the language of their host country and I, along with a number of others from all over the world, including the UK, have been learning Catalan. A few other Brits are learning Spanish but most don’t bother, other than to shout “dos cervesas por favor” or similar at the barman.

      It is also interesting to note just how different the local population is in its manner of dealing with foreigners in comparison to the UK population. For example Spain has in excess of 800,000 Romanians living here (about 8 times the UK number) yet there is no great anti Romanian outcry, despite the pitiful state of the Spanish economy and the vast unemployment here. Has there been an outcry on the lines of that in the UK? Er no. I think that says quite a lot about the British – and the Spanish.

      • Me_Again says:

        Spain doesn’t have a UKIP. The people of Spain are much more likely to go straight into riot mode rather than debate. Spain is a wonderful country but it will only tolerate the imposition for so long.

        As to your remarks a bout lazy Asian women, wow! If that wasn’t stereotypical racism then I really have never eaten sea cucumber in an oyster sauce…….

      • Generally speaking, Me Again, I love Asian food. But I can’t stand sea cucumber, with or without oyster sauce.

      • Me_Again says:

        Roger it took me five swallows to get it to stay down…………..

    • Right wingery says:

      But Jane, UKIP want to STRENGTHEN ties with these former imperial outposts and Commonwealth countries the doctors of which you (perhaps justifiably) denigrate. How on earth are UKIP going to help the problem?

      • Jane Davies says:

        Sorry….where in my comment did I denigrate doctors?

      • Me_Again says:

        By taking in more and more foreign medical students we automatically reduce the number of home grown ones -of whatever colour, shape and size. The ridiculous requirements to get a place for a UK student are staggering. Even having the required A* across all subjects doesn’t get you a look in if they haven’t filled their higher paying foreign quota -who, incidentally qualify for a student loan. Those who stay -and of course we do want doctors- will pay it back, those who don’t say Ta Ta, and that’s our money gone. AND still we have fewer British born doctors…..

    • Me_Again says:

      Sure is.
      I left the NHS 4 years ago but I doubt anything at all has changed. I have a daughter nursing at the moment and when we get together for a laugh and she tells me nursy stories and about headbutting the bureaucratic wall, I can often complet e the sentence.

  9. DICK R says:

    The usual leftie tactic, whenever someone speaks the truth just scream racist at them, well it won’t wash anymore, I suggest Catalanbrian takes some time to look at the effects of mass immigration in Whitechapel ,Birmingham, Manchester and such cities

    • Right wingery says:

      Manchester is predominately filled with the sort of white underclass that was made rather famous (or infamous) by the programme Shameless.

      Agree with you about Brum and other cities (Bradford is also a good example), but there again we are talking about non EU migrants, such as pakistanis, Bangladeshis and those from various African communities.

      The ‘mass immigration’ you and many other UKIP supporters rant on about are typically the very hard working folk who contribute towards the semi skilled and non skilled labour markets our Shameless generation refuse to countenance.

    • catalanbrian says:

      I have looked and indeed I have lived in Whitechapel and I have seen nothing that worried me and nothing that should worry anybody.

  10. Ex-expat Colin says:

    A particular benchmark I have is as follows. As a member of the RAF (1961-1977) I could walk a high street in uniform at anytime…and a enter a pub(s). On occasion cross London by rail/underground in best blue. The IRA largely ended that ordinary thing. Its not just the IRA though.

    The head post is about managed. The true meaning of that has flipped to something completely different and is more about vested interest than anything else. I’d say steered.

    Woolwich where I have a property is not what I remembered from the 60′s…why should it be? Its a place where a soldier was brutally murdered and out of uniform, so it will forever be remembered. However, it illustrates what lies within and which is not adequately challenged. Remember the word managed here.

    I’d like to see our military casually walk the streets again…don’t think its going to happen.

    In the 3 countries of the Middle East I had worked/lived with my family I encountered friendly and peaceful societies – subsidised. Never was I fooled by the peaceful bit…just watched/listened. The minority agitators were there and the level of poverty was worrying. Just exactly how do such people live and aspire to better. Its a complete rats nest of difficulties.

    I have witnessed the high level of unemployment in UK before circa mid 70′s. The seemingly easy distribution of funds to support those that are able to work repeats…why? I was made to work…why not those already here that can.

    This country has always been an expensive place to live and I won’t offer a list. Its often cold and the cities are not pleasant places. The attraction to it would be last on my list.

    • Me_Again says:

      Can’t argue with any of those observations Colin, I was RN from 75-91. Different places similar experiences.
      Still it won’t stop you getting a slating from Whinger and CatalanBrian, who know better than all of us and, coincidentally, support membership of the EU. Is that really a coincidence?

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        I miss the tot…days with the RN.

        John Redwood discusses EU energy policy on his website this morning, he seldom misses it.

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com

        Its about the impact on UK…I wonder what’s happening in the EU in this respect and of course there is a particular money drain from the EU because of sanctions on Russia. Managed again ?

        Thought I’d seen the last of diesel gen sets around 1968 (remote comms ops and sites). The old scout motto arises I think…Be Prepared.

      • Me_again says:

        Dib, dib indeed matey.
        Anyone who doesn’t have a contingency, didn’t serve.

      • catalanbrian says:

        You may wish to interpret that comment as racist but anybody with an ounce of sense would not.

      • Me_Again says:

        Well you seem free and easy with the application of such words as racist and xenophobic, I was just joining in the game. In review I think given some of your previous allegations to commenters on here about them being racist, this shows really you are the kettle calling the pot black, or, none of us are actually being racist merely because we express an interest in immigration policies.

      • catalanbrian says:

        I am afraid that It was you that introduced the word “Racist” to this series of comments.

      • Me_Again says:

        CBA to read back through, but we are in an ongoing combat Brian, so the boundary is Roger’s blog, not this thread.

  11. Jane Davies says:

    I couldn’t care less what race, colour, religion or sexual orientation incomers are. If their aim is to settle in the UK for a better life and to work hard and be valuable citizens and embrace the British way of life then that’s fine. But those who make certain areas no go zones for anyone not of their origin or beliefs, including police officers, then that is not to be tolerated. This will not change until we have politicians with balls who are not intimidated by the PC brigade and who are determined to rid a once great country of the cancerous spread of this foreign trash who not only change the dynamic and attitude of those who work hard and integrate but want to change the country into another third world ghetto. Be on notice Roger and UKIP sweep out the garbage and start with a clean slate. Honest law abiding citizens will not tolerate this state of affairs for much longer.

    • Right wingery says:

      “I couldn’t care less what race, colour, religion or sexual orientation incomers are. If their aim is to settle in the UK for a better life and to work hard and be valuable citizens and embrace the British way of life then that’s fine.”

      HEAR HEAR – Though be warned, the same people you refer to would be significantly impacted by UKIP’s immigration policy. Which is basically to deny entry to the UK for those who do want to come and graft.

      • Me_Again says:

        Not so. UKIP want INVITED persons of any, race, colour or creed, rather similar to Canada and the US, to come and work here where there is a demonstrable shortage in a particular skillset. Also if these persons commit offences we want to be able to remove them without having 2 years of human rights hearings telling us they have a right to a family life.

  12. Richard111 says:

    Jane Davies… Hear, Hear! You have my support. Where do I sign up?

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