A new YouGov poll shows a clear majority of voters in favour of leaving the EU: 52% want to leave, against only 30% who want to stay in. Amongst Conservative voters, that ratio rises to 66 against 22 — a three-to-one majority.
The poll was commissioned by Nikki Sinclaire, a former UKIP MEP, now independent (and thus a standing monument to UKIP’s factionalism, which has seen several resignations from their MEP ranks). Ms. Sinclaire may well have her own axe to grind — indeed she certainly does. But nonetheless the poll was conducted by YouGov, no doubt with their usual impeccable professionalism, so I think we have to accept the result.
The poll also shows that 60% of the public (74% of Conservative voters) want an In/Out EU referendum, while only 25% (19% of Tories) don’t.
I put it to David Cameron some time ago that the great majority of Conservatives disagreed with his view that British membership of the EU was in our national interest, and that perhaps he as Party Leader ought to take this into account. His reply was uncompromising: he didn’t want an In/Out referendum, because (again) he believed membership was in our national interest.
But you don’t have referenda merely to confirm your prejudices. You have referenda to give the people their chance to have a say. There’s something uncomfortably paternalistic in saying, in effect “I won’t let you have your say on this question, because you disagree with my settled opinion, and I happen to know that I’m right and you’re wrong”.
So who can we vote for to get a referendum? We cant vote UKIP because we know that will just split the tory vote & we will get the lunatics back in the asylum wrecking the country even more than they did during their last 13 years of tenure. We have the signatures to force a debate in the house but pound to a penny the whips will be out if there is ever any kind of a serious debate followed by an actual vote that allows the citizens to have their voices heard with a vote. The UK parliament is no better than Gadaffi or Mugabe when it comes to real democracy!
There’s me thinking I lived in a democracy, the wikipedia definition of which is:
“Democracy is a form of government in which all people have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives”
silly fellow – we shoot, bomb, maim and kill people in sovereign foreign Nations to force such a concept upon them.
The are obliged to accept OUR definition of a democracy down the barrel of a gun or be killed.
Britain on the otherhand is denied such a concept as it would overturn the corruption that is managed and controlled by the self serving politicians and their parasites.
sign the petiton for a eu referendum http://www.haveyoursay.eu
… and you are still a Conservative? Funny how he was most insistent that we had a right to a referendum BEFORE the election.
Roger, given Cameron’s response, what have you actually done about it? If nothing so far, what are you actually going to do about it?
This blog post appears to be nothing more than another ‘tick in the box’, the latest in a long line of gestures that do nothing other than convince your supporters you are ‘sound’ on the EU subject. More people are beginning to ask, to coin a phrase, where’s the beef?
You like to highlight and explain things, so why not post a piece on here explaining to your supporters why you are comfortable with Conservative MPs who claim to be opposed to our EU membership voting in favour of integrationist measures in the House?
Are they just a faction, or are all Tories completely untrustworthy and impotent when it comes to doing what the people they represent want them to do?
I’m somewhat taken aback by what comes across as a very aggressive attitude towards Roger.
You are referring to Roger supporting Chris Heaton-Harris and his initiative to promote an anti-EU group amongst tory MPs. You shot from the hip then without bothering to check your facts – are you now embarrassed by your journalistic failure and doing whatever you can to paper over the cracks?
I have in the past had respect for your blog – but I’m losing that, fast.
What exactly do you suppose Roger can do? It’s a matter of record that Roger has lost the whip in the past for his stance. He is a conscience politician who is not afraid to speak it like it is. But he’s not superman!
What should be obvious to you right now is that Cameron and Osborne do not listen to anybody so why moan at Roger because he hasn’t persuaded them to change their mind? What can he do that you can’t? Why haven’t you as an influential political blogger forced Cameron into an EU referendum? Where, Autonomous Mind, is your beef?
Thanks for the chuckle Tony. I don’t know what exactly I’m supposed to be embarrassed about but I certainly haven’t got my facts wrong, as demonstrated by the stir this has caused in some Eurosceptic circles.
I expect Roger, as an elected and lavishly remunerated representative with all his democratic legitimacy, to further the wishes of the people who elected him because they want the UK to leave the EU. Instead he is supporting the Whip-inspired initiative of George Eustice and Chris Heaton-Harris – two MPs who do not want the UK to leave the EU, because they cling to the delusion that the EU can be reformed and that we should remain within it and further integrate with it. Does that policy sound familiar to you? It should, it is David Cameron’s.
So, how does Roger’s support for the Eustice / Heaton-Harris agenda square with his public pronouncements about being Better Off Out of the EU? On that we still await a definitive answer.
I make no apology for scrutinising the actions of our MPs and MEPs and comparing them to their pledges in an frank and open manner. If that causes you to lose respect for me or my blog then I shall have to live with the disappointment.
Roger cannot have it both ways. If he supports this new Tory ‘mainstream Eurosceptic’ grouping as he has said he does then he is advocating an approach to the EU that runs counter to the BOO position. Genuine Eurosceptics, those who want the UK to leave the EU, need to know and understand that.
I was about to reply, but Tony Egghead did already! You ask why I didn’t post a blog about the position of Tory MPs — but of course I did. Perhaps you didn’t read it? Se “True Believers”.
Roger, this is what your government has approved and given permission for.
You have to admit, this is corruption of democracy on a massive scale
although you still boast of your status as a EUrosceptic as tolerated by your corrupt Party in the certain knowledge of your lack of achievement over many years perhaps as a Plastic EUrosceptic acting as a Judas Goat for the Tory pro EU membership stance – in complete variance with its own voters – you would be so good as to provide the URL of the stance of which you boast.
Having not read it clearly you are correct – I read very little of your output as I am well aware, sadly, of how irrelevant and duplicitous you are in the battle to Leave-The-EU. Having achieved absolutely nothing at vast cost in over 12 years as the record shows.
This is, as Autonomous Mind outlines, simply a gesture, nothing more. Cameron needs to feel as though he will be debased at the next election, come on, after all this is supposed to be the ruthless Conservative party, behave like it!
Let him know that he will have the core support until then, but at the next election it’s time for heads to roll, a fresh cabinet or, like Sinclaire (who is quite an example of UKIP right now, everyone out for themselves – Farage is especially under the cosh) go it alone and only lend support when it meets your needs.
Conservatism is lost right now, you’re in power (how could you not be) but you’re not at the same time. That cabal of members pushing for a vote are mostly up and coming future front line Tories, but that’s not soon enough, they need as much support as possible and while you are “just” and MEP you could support them in debasing Cameron.
Oh and give my regards to that turncoat Bannerman.
How come politicians in government never seem to feel the breeze of public opinion wafting around their heads?
I am fascinated by the fact that oft times, said public opinion when as forceful as this, turns out to be right.
Let’s face it, is it likely that so many people could be wrong?
It only takes someone to formulate and present a plan for the safe and economically acceptable withdrawal of England (the UK?) from the EU and there would be even fewer dissenters to the idea of a referendum on the subject and fewer people who want to be European.
I wonder howmany remember the ‘trustees’ in Auschwitz – as Jews aiding their captors they survived for as long as they willingly filled and emptied the the ‘showers’ and the incinerators.
Perhaps they were hoping that the SS would have a change of heart in 40 or so years time!
It is now over 40 years since we first heard the mantra that ‘we mustn’t startle the horses’ and ‘we can change the party’.
I wonder howmany others see something of a similarity!
The Tories even came up with the ludicrous slogan:
‘In EUrope but not ruled by Europe’.
I expect many of the ‘trustees’ had their cantors chanting:
‘In the gas chamber but not breathing’, for them!
Perhaps Helmer would care to tell us all EXACTLY what he has achieved in his 12 years as a Judas Goat.
We are all well aware of the very generous bribes and expenses he has received for doing his JOB in those 12 years.
Clearly he has utterly failed to convince EUroRealists, he has duped very few Eurosceptics and it is self evident that he and his cronies have achieved absolutely nothing to Leave-The-EU.
Unable to convince their own side it is hardly surprising they have failed to convince anyone else!
It is our own politicos and their hirelings and parasites in the Kleptocratic QUANGOcracy who are the Looters and OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
You say that many Euro-sceptics do not have a strategy. That is a rather insightful point.
So, what is yours? Do you support an In/Out Referendum? Is failure to provide for one a resigning issue?
At what point will you say no mas on Tory-led EU integration? What measures do you have planned? What strategic alternatives do you have?
From where I type, I suspect the exact same criticism can be leveled at you, but I will await your response(s).
Forlorn as the hope may appear, there’s a better chance of getting a Tory government to see sense on Europe than is the case with any other party. You may say it takes a long time to achieve chnage — it also seems to be taking a long time to elect a single UKIP MP to Westminster! I think the prospects of change are better now than they have been for years, with the euro disintegrating and public opinion turning ever more strongly against the EU.
And in reply to the GLW — no, Greg, I’m not a Nazi goat. And I think that over the last dozen years I, along with others, have done much to educate the public about the evils of Brussels, so I don’t consider my time or effort wasted.
Helmer it is irrefutable that you are dishonest.
Nowhere did I EVER accuse you of being a ‘Nazi’ Goat.
Disgusting as I may find the views of ‘Nazis’ they were at least honourable. They believed something, all be it disgusting, and they acted accordingly.
You clearly do not understand the origins of the nomenclature which I attributed to you which was ‘Judas Goat’ which has absolutely nothing to do with ‘Nazis’.
Perhaps a brief scan of history and you will become aware that the great changes for the better in the ranks of mankind have NEVER been politically led – They have, almost without exception been forced upon the self serving politicians by the wishes, demands and actions of the people.
The morality of the people has almost without exception been the catalyst to overturn the corruption and betrayal of the self enriching politicians.
I and it seems the majority in these United Kingdoms who have not been drugged to apathy or given up and think only of themselves do not share your quite idiotic belief that there is any chance whatever that the congestion of self seekers in westminster of whatever stripe will act honourably in the interests of these United kingdoms and its people and Leave-The-EU it is our own politicians who are OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN for sadly the system is designed to protect the corrupt status quo and in that static state clearly scum rises!
You may duck and weave but ultimately you can not hide from the fact that you have been greatly enriched from the public purse and you have delivered absolutely nothing of consequence – you have not one inch of movement towards the wishes of the electorate to Leave-The_EU.
So far you have duplicitously insulted and tried to defame me and dishonestly misquoted me – I await your next political stunt to avoid answering the questions on this thread and on this topic.
Roger, as I’ve said before and the article above only reinforces my opinion, that Cameron is in fact , a wet Liberal in his views and actions . Where are the Churchills and Thatchers of this world to tell this Franco / German club to go to hell ?
So 66% of tories wish to leave the EU then. Hardly a overwhelming national mandate aside from your insular and devisive party is it.
No I am not a Europhile as it happens but neither do I believe that your unionist, royalist and ‘the rich get richer at the poors expense’ capitalist policies are the answer for or England either.
The sooner we extract ourselves from both Evil Unions the better for the future of England and her people.
sorry to be picky but 66% is an overwhelming majority in a given group.
52% is a clear majority when that against the 52% is an accurately polled and researched 30% only.
That Governments are elected with a mere 25% or less of the electorate and can be elected in a fair democracy by 1% or even a single vote must be noted.
I would contend your comment to be a strawman argument – as with the idiotic idea of breaking up these United Kingdoms is clearly ill conceived and crass in every respect.
As shown by the very reasons they came together – unlike The EU which is unlawful and founded on a pack of lies, a lack of democracy and an arcane and now failed experiment.
There is no middle way and Britain will Leave-The-EU not if but when – interestingly the politician who leads us out will be long remembered after the snivelling dweebs who betray us and their Judas Goats hidden behind Plastic EUrosceptic claims and efforts to change the meaning to suit their Aesopian agenda of treachery.
So 44% of Tories don’t and probably a majority of the combined other parities. Don’t you just love democracy?
indeed democracy is wonderful – would that we had it in Britain where the poll clearly showed that only 30% of the populace of all parties and none would vote in favour of membership of The EU and 52% said they would actively vote against.
Where 66% of those who actually voted Tory said they would vote to Leave-The-EU.
I trust this helps you to understand the importance of the concept of democracy which we are denied yet which Mr. Cameron has proved happy to slaughter and maim Libyans to POSSIBLY achieve in what was Africas stablest, most literate major Country with its free health service, education for all, sound housing stock and clean water for all with petrol at 14c a GALLON.
All achieved under the rule and guidance of Qaddaffi.
Indeed isn’t democracy a wonderful concept and you might care to consider the economic plight and the choir of castrati at Westminster since we surrendered our democracy and permitted the obscene and arcane failed experiment that is the undemocratic centralised dictatorial EU to rule us directly.
Sadly the Tory Party has permitted a claque of Judas Goats to lead the sheeple into the belief that they are in some way EUrosceptic because they want to be in The EU and tweak it a bit whilst 66% of their electorate wish unequivocally to Leave-the-EU and thus it is clear that those who support The Tories from within and are tolerated are OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN – numerous of them fulfilling the role of Judas Goats as Plastic Pretend EUrosceptic.
They are of course required, and aided by the party, as thus the public may be duped. Thick as many of these Judas Goats are I can not for a moment believe that Roger Helmer, Dan Hannan, Carswell, Chris Heaton-Harris or even ex Open EUrope ex UKIP little George EUstace are so thick they do not know the role they are allowed to take and aid in in return for their bribes and expenses.
Could it be hubris, arrogance and self interest that is the venal motivation for such betrayal of these United k
“we had it in Britain where the poll clearly showed that only 30% of the populace of all parties and none would vote in favour of membership of The EU and 52% said they would actively vote against.”
Unfortunately a poll isn’t a vote and isn’t democracy. I’m not sure exactly how you relate membership in the EU with taking part in a UN backed mission in Libya.
quite obviously a Poll is not in itself democracy Lazarus.
I am glad you regret the result was not the democracy its says.
For the record and to avoid confusing those who do not understand such polls – the poll was taken of a professionally chosen sampling of the peoples of these United Kingdoms to ascertain the likelihood of how they would actually vote if given the opportunity on the issues as presented.
I do hope this helps you and gives you the strength to pick up your bed and go out to canvass to increase the patriotic vote to Leave-The-EU and overturn the corrupt Tories who refuse to represent their own voters.
“I am glad you regret the result was not the democracy its says.”
You must have mistaken me for somebody else.
Dear Greg_L-W you keep repeating the same phrases of which you seem rather proud. Do tell us why goats should be so demeaned and classified with Judas.
It is all getting somewhat tiring and unconvincing, despite the use of some very commendable vocabulary.
The time that the last post was entered seems to indicate that the brain may be fatigued:suggest a siesta Greg.
However, before you go, I would just like to say that your point would be better received if it contained more proven facts which are pertinent to the original theme and could prove your point, and fewer insults couched in flowery language.
Short and sweet is often best.
Regards and respect all the same
I had assumed those who had no knowledge of the meaning of the term Judas Goat since caps. were used would at least look it up!
For a simple guide to the activities of a ‘Juds Goat’ try Wiki as a first stop.
Time: Indeed I have very irregular sleep paterns predicated by health I regret.
With regard to proof do let me know the facts you are unaware of in this context.
With regard to brevity – not my style but YOU are welcome to write as you wish, just as you are under no compulsion to seek knowledge of the facts.
I clearly believe in greater freedom not constraint, in less governance and not more, in decentralisation and not centralisation.
IF you wish to seek the bulk of facts that I call on to be so accurate about the EU and Roger Helmer, and the undeniably corrupt governance by Westminster by all means contact me direct.
Let us not forget one of the phrases I keep repeating and of which I am particularly proud is ‘Helmer please inform us EXACTLY what you have actually achieved that has moved these United Kingdoms one inch closer to Leave-The-EU in 12+ years at the cost of may £Millions?’. or words to that effect.
To date all he has managed is to issue an offensive and insulting rejoinder and a bunch of bland platitudes – showing that even he in his hubris is aware he is just a Plastic EUrosceptic acting as a Judas Goat.
A Judas Goat is a technical term:
A Judas goat is a trained goat used at a slaughterhouse and in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared.
The suggestion is that, wittingly or unwittingly, Mr Helmer and others are leading anti-EU opinion into Tory dead ends. Rather hilariously, he suggests that those who disagree with him lack a strategy, where “his strategy” has been a serial failure over at least 30 years.
An accepted definition of insanity is to do the same thing repeatedly, expecting a different outcome. Does it apply here?
sadly over 50 years of proof provided by both the Tories and Labour and that their latest dupes as Judas Goats tolerated by the party to give a Plastic EUroSceptic image are those like Helmer, Hannan, EUstace, Heaton-Harris, Carswell and their ilk.
Astonishingly some of them may even believe the Mantras they perpetuate.
Time however has proved them wrong, to a man.
That they continue to lie is undeniable whether wittingly or unwittingly is a personal judgement call but minded of the huge bribes and generous rewards do pardon my scepticism.
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OK. Lets say you’ll leave the European Union, and whats gonna be next for you then? Are you gonna join the African Union for a perfect living on the unpaid deficit debts in Britain?
Such referendum is a nonsense.
Yes leave the European Union and join the Pakistani Union. Way to go for Britain. Top Score! haha