Toxic Waste Gushes Forth!

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Yesterday I had the pleasure and privilege of appearing for UKIP in the BBC’s special Daily Politics debate on Climate and Energy, chaired by Andrew Neil.  I was delighted to find myself pitched against Ed Davey, Secretary of State for Energy & Climate Change.  In addition there were Labour’s Shadow Caroline Flint, Tory Energy Minister Matt Hancock and the Green’s Andrew Cooper, who is their PPC for Huddersfield.

As it happens, I had recently been in Huddersfield supporting our own UKIP PPC Rob Butler.  Andrew Cooper knew I had visited the town, but (he said) had been unable to attend our public meeting.

The climate debate (I thought) went relatively well.  I felt I got rather less airtime than the old party candidates, but that was largely because they were arguing the detail of policies which we oppose totally, so in a sense we didn’t have a dog in those fights.  Nonetheless I managed to get in some of our key points – which of course were roundly attacked and dismissed by the rest of the panel.

I must commend Andrew Neil in the Chair, who helped to redress the balance.  For example, I mentioned that there had been no Global Warming for eighteen years.  This was immediately pooh-poohed by the rest of the panel, and especially by Ed Davey.  But the Chairman came straight back and asserted (rightly) that there had been an eighteen year hiatus in warming – and I noticed that Ed Davey was less eager to pooh-pooh Andrew Neil.  Davey insisted that the computer models of climate change had anticipated such an hiatus – a point which even arch-Warmist Roger Harrabin (the BBC’s top Environment Correspondent, who was sitting in) dismissed.

Later the debate turned to last year’s Somerset floods, with the rest of the panel earnestly claiming this as evidence for climate change.  I came in and pointed out that commentators at the time (and especially people who knew the area and had worked on flood management for decades) insisted that the floods were a direct and perverse result of misconceived green policies, and the consequent lack of dredging.  Again, the rest of the panel reacted with horror and derision at this heretical view.

Regrettably, I hadn’t brought the killer evidence with me.  Andrew Neil, however, had.  He read out the reported words of (Labour) Baroness Young, a previous chief of the Environment Agency.  She reportedly said “Instant wild-life – just add water!  I’d like to see a limpet mine put on every pumping station”.

We’ve known about draining marshes and flood plains for hundreds of years.  It was in 1630 that the Fourth Earl of Bedford undertook the drainage of the Bedford levels.   Yet in the 21st Century a Labour Government chose to give control of the Environment Agency to someone as gloriously ignorant and naïve in these matters as Baroness Young.

The key point I made was that current energy and climate policy fails in its own terms.  We raise energy prices, and drive energy-intensive industries out of the UK and the EU.  They go to jurisdictions with lower environmental standards, where they emit more CO2 than if we’d left them alone to start with.  Ed Davey’s policies undermine the competitiveness of industry, while at the same time arguably increasing global emissions.  Yet Davey maintains his doctrinaire stance, totally failing to engage with the crisis he is creating, his mind closed to other points of view.

Caroline Flint was remarkable for her determination to hog the airtime and persistently to speak – or shout – over the other speakers.  After the event I discussed it separately with four people who had seen the show, and they each, spontaneously and independently, commented on how awful and irritating she had been.  Matt Hancock and Andrew Cooper had been relatively courteous and measured by comparison.

Within hours of the show, James Delingpole had written it up on Breitbart, in a perceptive and highly readable post, under the title “BBC stages eco-debate – toxic waste gushes forth”.null

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84 Responses to Toxic Waste Gushes Forth!

  1. Charles says:

    I enjoyed the broadcast and, though you certainly “won” the arguments, it was a pity, perhaps, that the Chmn and/or yourself did not remind us of the proportionately miniscule UK greenhouse gas output, negating almost all Green energy policies in practice.
    We should not let the C.Flints and E. Davey and the like get away with the very false assumption we could influence CC, even if the Greenies’ AGW hypotheses hold any water.
    Does Davey realize all that, or is he slightly mad, as he appeared?

  2. catalanbrian says:

    In the photograph you are seen standing in front of a poster headed “UKIP environmental policy”, but you don’t have one, other than to trash the environment. Still I suppose that at least is a policy, not that it matters as it seems that UKIP are likely to be trounced at the General Election.

    • Charles Wardrop says:

      “Catalanbrian”: I suppose that if you didn’t exist, you would have had to be invented for these columns.
      Were you invented?

      • My humble and unreserved apologies to Charles. Just to ensure there can be no possible misunderstanding, I was refering to you. Charles may well be a scholar and a gentleman for anything I know to the contrary. One thing I am quite certain of is that youre a arsehole.

    • Oh do shut up, moron.

      I would refer you to UKIP’s website, and the sections headed “policies”, but I imagine there’s more chance of Elvis turning out to be alive than you actually looking at it. Just shut up and sod off, there’s a good twat.

      • catalanbrian says:

        It’s very rude of you to tell poor Charles to “shut up, moron”. I do disagree with him but I would never go as far as to call anyone a moron, but then I suppose that it does take one to recognise another.

      • `David says:

        Love it, keep up the good work!

      • catalanbrian says:

        Clearly, Mr Shakespeare you are incapable of writing anything that does not include offensive remarks which is of course a sure indicator of someone who has nothing to say that is worth listening to.

    • ehadmiral says:

      The Rain in Spain makes you yet wetter!

    • Dear Brian, I think you would do well to read our manifesto before outbursts like this. For example — are you aware of how we propose to save the Green Belt, and how the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors said that UKIP was the only party with a viable plan to solve Britain’s long-term housing crisis?

      • catalanbrian says:

        Dear Roger. I was referring specifically to UKIP’s overall environmental policy, and you do already know that I do disagree with your policies on energy and the environment. Yes of course UKIP has other policies and, although I may disagree with most of them, I am fully aware that you have them. And you might be surprised to hear that I do happen to think that your housing policy is, on the face of it, reasonably sensible. Mind you to be better than the rest on this policy is not that difficult as none of the other parties seem to have got to grip with this and seem to think that a housing policy is all about shouting a bigger number than the others!

    • catweazle666 says:

      Prat.

    • Brin Jenkins says:

      Illogical once again Brian, scrapping ill conceived, economy damaging political mistakes is a good start for our environment. A restart to cleaning and dredging our once effective water management system will be a great leap forward, getting rid of incompetent overpaid political lackeys following their common purpose will reduce taxation on our already overtaxed peoples.

      In all I fail to see any negatives at all, I doubt your Spanish hosts would agree with your ineffective capital wasting ideals on the environment.

  3. How very BBC to ensure the sceptic is outnumbered five-to-one. With back-up from a so-called “expert”.

    One must, after all, appear to be egalitarian and impartial — don’t forget one’s future funding is possibly dependent on this — but one doesn’t want the Great Unwashed getting the wrong idea that we’re all DOOOOOOOOOOMED! After all, one held a big meeting with Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, and they assured one that we’re all DOOOOOOOMED! So we can rest assured that we’rte all DOOOOOOOMED! And irresponsible people who question whether we’re all DOOOOOOOOMED must in no way be permitted to influence the Great unwashed into thinking that we might not all be DOOOOOOOOOMED!

  4. Ex-expat Colin says:

    Those 4 to your right were/are scrambling/screaming for power. Mustn’t miss the chance.. and it shows badly along with the SNP (particularly) and the Plaid thing.

    Hopefully Davey is finished soon….trouble is there’s more like him.

    Hove Town Hall roof on fire…solar panels bite back…maybe?

    • `David says:

      I keep visualising that “lady” from Plaid, waving a daffy in a war situation, at our enemies
      .

    • `David says:

      “Solars bite back”, no my friend probably the wrong kind of sun, like the wrong kind of leaves on the tracks.
      Titters all round.

  5. Katie says:

    \No wonder the EU wants wind energy to stay. Take a look at this. Well done Roger on a great post yet again.

    http://wcfn.org/2015/04/22/huge-wind-farm-corruption-scandal-in-spain/

    I am sure this is going on in the UK too on a massive scale and this is why many of our leaders want it to continue as long as it is not in their back yards of course. Some of the SNP councillors and members have privately started moaning and waking up to the fact that some of them are to get wind farms in their doorsteps. Bring it on!! We have seen so many people in our area have to leave because of wind farms and the noise etc. 2 familes have recently been bought out at twice the market rate of their homes. In some ways they are the lucky ones. At least they get to sell their properties. They put up with terrible noise for over 8 years and the only reason they were bought out was because another developer wanted to erect another wind farm close to them and knew they would not be able to comply with noise conditions so they just got rid of the people in the homes and now they can put more monstrosities in and stuff the wildlife and landscapes. I am sick to death of listening to Davey going on about the virtues of renewable energy while all the time India and China get on with life. With all the immigrants coming into this country we will not be able to cope especially in light of the fact that Scotland has been told to get rid of gas before 2020!! Has the world gone completely mad? Can someone tell me where the nearest Bison is so I can make myself a coat for the winter to wear indoors.

    • catalanbrian says:

      Three points, Katie. Wind is not the only area for corruption in Spain. Pretty much the entire system is corrupt, presumably also including fossil fuel energy!

      China is now reaping the negatives of coal power as most cities are becoming so polluted that the inhabitants need to wear smog masks. Additionally it should be noted that China is currently shutting coal plants.

      Finally your point regarding immigrants really does not deserve commenting on but you really need to get a grip on this anti immigrant thing. All the evidence indicates that immigration has had a beneficial effect on the UK economy.

      Oh and the nearest Bison is probably at your local zoo!

      • Katie says:

        Oh dear, no sense of humour either!! Yes, I do know where Bison can be found – I’ve been there and seen them wild for myself! Yes, I do know how corrupt Spain is. I lived there for quite some time and have seen it first hand. We are not talking about the whole system in Spain though, are we? This topic is about renewables and CO2 etc so that is why I made the comments I did. China and India have had problems with smog for a long time now. They will not revert from fossil fuels as it would mean half their industries would have to shut down. Their problem is also overpopulation in their major cities. Something we will see one day. I don’t know why you join in this blog unless you think you are being clever. Why don’t you clear off (can’t say what I’d like to say) or keep your unnecessary comment to yourself. What a strange person you are if you have so much time on your hands you can take part in things that really don’t hold with your beliefs. Why don’t you try coming to Scotland to see the destruction on a vast scale wind farms are causing up here or perhaps you have and like what you see?? By the time we give up gas we may as well give up on life!

      • Katie says:

        Yes, China is moving away from coal but apart from renewable energy they want to expand oil exploration and gas showing that they realise there is no way they can run their country using renewables and they will not rely on them. Same as we can’t. it would be economic suicide to do so. Scotland already has more wind than it can cope with and that’s without the wind coming out of Follyrood!! (Holyrood)

      • Brin Jenkins says:

        No, we need to get a grip on the bigoted immigration policies of the lefty cultural wreckers. Our NHS is going broke rapidly, how can the 96 different languages, that must be accommodated by political edict, help in any way. Who ever gave you the authority to bring in such changes? It was never published as any Parties Election Manifesto that this was going to happen.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      Its been years of it and their FIT has been either stopped or much reduced leaving many people busted. Solar Companies failing and investors trying to get their money back – USA and Germany. In 2014 alternative energy group NextEra filed a complaint against Spain at the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes

      Also the scandal of reporting good solar power supply but found running diesels.

      Anything subsidised like this….is pure cr*p. When this game ends I hope that an authority can begin seizing assets of all those who forced this stupid business upon us. Its nothing to do with saving the planet..its for personal gain only!

      S. Africa the same way..corruption and failure. No surprise!

      Would like to believe that UK would shine above this but VI’s have sucked the politicians in. Not forgetting the propensity for politicians to be VI’s or too closely associated.

      • Katie says:

        Yes, I wonder who is benefitting over here. Not us that’s for sure!!

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        Landowners in a good wind stream..never forget the crown of course.
        http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/energy-and-infrastructure/offshore-wind-energy/our-portfolio/

        Solar panels have a use…but again, subsidised. If the subsidy really went heavily into technology research in this context it would be good. I think it largely gets arched up a wall via Westminster.

      • Ian Terry says:

        Hey Colin you should stand for parliament. Cocking true if the subsidies are there then it gets corrupt. All anyone sees is the money. The whole of the EU is all about the few. Shades of Agenda 21 I ask myself.

      • catalanbrian says:

        So if anything subsidised is crap why are fossil fuel power companies and the nuclear industry heavily subsidised?

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        Couple of huge clues for you:

        1. Political history of the UK and EU (not forgetting the USA)
        2. Vested interests related to 1. and particularly the USA

        I am pretty sure that the difference between the design, construction and support of Nuclear Plant, Oil/Gas Rigs and Mining is rather large in terms of finance and long term effort. Very big money,time and planning required. The quick criminal money arises from slinging up wind turbines/solar panels that dribble energy into a very large baseload demand.

        Attempting to drag the far future into the present as regards power generation/disposal is a near dead loss. Apart form the waste of good money it deprives the poorest in the world of a fair living standard. You and your anti fossil lean only serve to deny the poor their right to safe living. And your attitude (and others) also helps those that are falsifying common climate change to gain substantial profit and standing in the world.

        Below:
        “I am here in the rather feint hope that I may make some of you Kippers”

        A kipper is a dead fish in a state of having been doused in brine solution and smoked in a smoke hole using wood shavings. The term has not the slightest relationship to a political party of the UK . Funny it might be…stupid it clearly is.

        Not sure you are welcome here TBH ?

      • catweazle666 says:

        catalanbrian: “So if anything subsidised is crap why are fossil fuel power companies and the nuclear industry heavily subsidised?”

        Oh look, another economic illiterate who is unaware of the difference between subsidies – paid to facilities that are never going to be capable of producing output at an economical price, and tax rebates – given to assist facilities with start-up, development and exploration in the absolute knowledge that the recipient will repay them many times over.

        But you really do know that, don’t you, so stop trolling.

  6. barrymx5 says:

    Well done Roger. Brilliant. And what an opportunity to put down DAVEY and Flint in one go! As one who tried to help last year in the Somerset Levels flooding, I am particularly grateful to you (and Andrew Neil!) for pointing out that unlike climate change, the flooding was man made – by the LibLabCon.

  7. Andy says:

    Roger – off topıc I know and apologies for that but I do not live in the UK so don’t always get to hear of things. Is there goıng to be a similar debate to this on pensions and especıally the State Pension?
    If there is what is the Ukıp posıtıon regardıng the frozen pension policy?
    I belıeve that the Greens have commıtted to aboiısh it, Roger will Ukıp?

  8. Andy says:

    Should add that I will need to complete my postal ballot very shortly so an early reply would be appreciated.

  9. “Caroline Flint was remarkable for her determination to hog the airtime and persistently to speak – or shout – over the other speakers.” Exactly so. Dreadful woman, nothing positive or accurate to contribute, so she simply shrieked over everyone else. Oh for a means of gagging politicians when they start on that ‘occupy the airwaves’ tack! Mrs. Balls does the same. Instantly removes any respect or credibility they might once have had.

  10. catalanbrian says:

    Katie. I am here in the rather feint hope that I may make some of you Kippers rethink your ludicrous environmental stance. Some of you may be intelligent enough to understand that we cannot continue to slash and burn the earth’s resources as we have done in the past but there again others………….

    • Katie says:

      Oh please. Go and do some homework and listen to the real science. You are boring me!

    • Ian Terry says:

      CB At least when you have a go try and at least use your spell check. feint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      It gives no substance to your stance a little bit like urinating before you have your flies open

    • Jane Davies says:

      I have to admire your persistence Brian if the reason you contribute to this blog year after year is because of the faint (note the spelling!) hope that UKIP will rethink their environmental stance. But any intelligent person should be able to see that this ‘aint going to happen. Tent folding and walking away springs to mind!

    • catweazle666 says:

      More insults and ad homs…

      You really think calling people names and insulting their intelligence is going to convert them to your totally discredited anti-scientific ersatz religion?

      Dear me, you really haven’t the first idea, have you?

      These days, it’s you lot that are the science deniers, sunshine.

  11. Richard111 says:

    I have been checking this Live Wind Powersite daily for a couple of weeks now. The wind performance is poor to say the least. What I do find intriguing is the “Import” meter. Never changes! Sits at 3.0GW. This looks to me like we are paying RANSOME money to France.🙂
    Question for Roger: Do we really need that 3.0GW of imported electricity?

  12. Richard111 says:

    Blast! Typo in the link above. Try this – http://clivebest.com/rgraph/Wind.html
    Apologies to all.

  13. Jane Davies says:

    The party leaders little pre-election song……..

  14. duyfken says:

    Brian, my friend, my good friend, I really do think you should desist.

  15. Ex-expat Colin says:

    as Good As You…..that would be something about the eye of the beholder. This is where the BBC London bunch loose big time:

    The Leader Interviews…Nigel Farage (Apr 29 2015)

  16. DICK R says:

    Even if there is such a thing as global warming it can only be beneficial to those living in the temperate zones ,growing more food ,using less energy for heating and general well being , the third world can rot in their self made cesspit.

  17. No Expert says:

    Global Warming is REAL!!! The Era Of Stoking Skepticism Is Over.

    In early January The American Petroleum Institute admitted in no uncertain terms and endorsed the valuable contribution that solar power is now making to the US economy. This despite spending money over the years attacking the Climate Scientists and paying people like Roger Helmer to spread disinformation. Americas largest and most powerful oil lobby has thrown in the towel in the face of genuine scientific findings across the entire spectrum.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomzeller/2015/01/18/the-end-of-the-partisan-divide-over-climate-change/

    To all doubters start to educate yourselves and see the REAL TRUTH instead of the crap the snake oil salesmen like Roger Helmer want to supply you with. You owe it to your grandchildren and your country.

  18. No Expert says:

    CEOs in various countries, not least in the USA are unimpressed by the arguments of Denialists such as Roger Helmer. They are taking steps to reduce the emissions of their corporations, to become as efficient as possible by making best use of their power consumption. Some are even generating their own solar supply. Even if a State Government is presently anti Climate Change Corporations within such States are voting with their cheque books to prepare for tougher emissions regulation in the future. The writing is on the wall and has been for some time.

    American Insurance companies are warning both State Governments and the Federal Government that the effects of Climate Change are real and becoming visible (Katrina, Sandy and others) and are demanding that water supplies, dykes and drainage systems as well as power supply be hardened up to cope with future events. The insurance industry cannot see themselves being able to withstand claims on the scale of recent events going forward. The writing is on the wall and has been for some time.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      Bollox !

    • Brin Jenkins says:

      Many of us have asked for an explanation we might discuss, and are still waiting. Why should we just accept another’s opinion that is not a logical scientific explanation?

      As you profess to have an understanding, perhaps you can explain how the man made CO2 contributes with a precise explanation.

  19. No Expert says:

    I am a UKIP supporter and will be voting UKIP at the election. Roger Helmer is right that high energy consuming production activities will look for cheaper supplies. Texas is an attractive location for these industries on account of the boom there in shale gas and oil. Europe can never compete with the energy costs available in Texas. Thats why BMW and Land Rover are building factories there.

    What I vehemently oppose are the false arguments against Climate Change and clean power generation. We need to produce as much clean energy generation as we reasonably can. We don’t know the real cost of what is euphemistically called Clean Coal. The technology is in its infancy, its experimental and may never be viable. The Germans gave up on it a few years ago. We need to get rid of heavily polluting coal generation as soon as possible and replace it with much cleaner gas fired power stations. It is to be hoped that UK fracking might help with that subject to good controls and community profit streams coming into force. The Greens do have a point about community power generation, this may be a useful thing to acheive in a fracking environment.

    Roger Helmer and Andrew Nield showed a SURFACE Temperature graph and falsley argued from that that it applied to the whole world when it excluded both the polar regions and the worlds oceans. Its the oceans that hold the most heat, not the land mass. The other 4 politicians, caught cold in Nield’s trap, just didn’t have the facts at hand to effectively dispute the totally false claim.

    Beware the unholy trinity of Roger Helmer, James Delingpole and Niel Hamilton. Each and every one a snake oil salesman.

    • Brin Jenkins says:

      Physics suggest that our Oceans do indeed hold the latent heat rather more than land. Land heats very quickly and releases it at the same rate. Water heats more slowly, there is far more of it and it retains heat longer. Even Ice has recoverable energy and it all originated where? The Sun of course, not carbon or carbon dioxide which is but an energy store.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      Mainly Bollox….and whats with the Caps shout and misspell?

    • catweazle666 says:

      Bollox.

      Stop making stuff up.

  20. Ex-expat Colin says:

    Walking down the road and then the student babble hits you. Farage Nov 2014

  21. Jane Davies says:

    I found this a bit frustrating…..all firing questions at him but not letting him answer!

  22. Ian Terry says:

    Well campers if you really want confirmation about the windfarm scam being out of control just follow this link.
    http://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20150427/281479274962194/TextView

    Who is going to pay for all the subsidies especially when Scotland go it alone?

    Roger if you get the people into Westminster that has got to be the easiest tax of the lot. very hard to hide them when they are up. This has all been done on the premise that the Scottish parliament had full control of energy.

    God help us all when they start at Westminster after the election.
    >

  23. Ex-expat Colin says:

    EU passes another law and adds £72 to price of new car?

    eCall in all new cars from April 2018
    http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/ecall-all-new-cars-april-2018

    My old side cutters find another new lease of life. Simply no choice…again!

    No end to these hand wringers is there?

    • Flyinthesky says:

      It’s been sold on the safety ticket, what’s it really for.

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        Safety – the prevention of harm using common sense in ordinary cases. I know!

        It relies on an embedded mobile phone (data) and a distant database (IT) to record an event. In the case of the former failure, use your own phone – if you want/charged. In the case of the later…just die waiting.

        Its close to the GPS tracker that was mooted sometime ago and could be the “what you doing and where” game rather than safety.

        Whoever dreamt it up needs to pay for it personally I think, and any other junk they come up with by law.

  24. Ex-expat Colin says:

    Today in Brussels:
    EU asylum plan a direct threat to our civilisation – UKIP leader Nigel Farage

    Looking more like the USA each day…wonder why? Not really!

    • Jane Davies says:

      Good speech from Nigel, he tells the truth.
      Has the EU parliament ever admitted they have got anything wrong?

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        As not elected and unaccountable (audit of accounts not signed off for about 8 years) I would think apologies would never be on their list. Just contempt!

        Its the handouts from the EU to the UK countries outside of England thats of interest and thats why England is the looser. If a country cannot sustain itself within the Union of UK then its only us in England who have to pay/sustain. Those that do pay taxes in those countries likely realise this…and by the recent SNP split attempt…only just.

        And from the SNP we get this?
        http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/572945/Nicola-Sturgeon-linked-police-fraud-investigation-IT-workers

        Thats the game of Teir 2 immigration…or fraud. It explains a lot that I have heard from my IT son and on BBC R4 a few weeks back…farmers and land package allowances…EU again!

        Its a very big UK/EU mess !

  25. Brin Jenkins says:

    Still no warming expert has explained the mechanism for the CO2 in climate change! It looks like they have little understanding so they are incapable of explaining why they feel that we need to change to their point of view.

  26. Ex-expat Colin says:

    GWPF is investigating climate data integrity of the official global surface temperature records. No doubt to be slapped down via any VI and shortly the Vatican I suspect. The latter support to mop up any non believers in AGW that go to churches. Everybody to get on the same page?

    http://www.thegwpf.org/inquiry-launched-into-global-temperature-data-integrity/

    Monckton proves monthly (using official data) that C02 is a minor gas and has little or no effect on climate and thats with increase in C02 from anywhere. And temperature precedes increase in natural C02 with a knats dribble of power station CO2 on top.

  27. Ex-expat Colin says:

    Not much of this looked good at all, and you need to sign up to C4 (No Thanks)

    Channel 4 – Youth Leaders Debate
    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/youth-leaders-debate

    whereas this does look v. good: (D. Telegraph today)

    Top Gear reunited: Clarkson, Hammond and May in ‘top secret’ Goodwood talks

  28. Ex-expat Colin says:

    This may not get on Youtube just yet? From last nights BBC Question Time as a follower from Birmingham:

    Election 2015: Ask Nigel Farage
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05t1wnj/election-2015-ask-election-2015-ask-nigel-farage

    It seems strange that the young (here and on other progs) concentrate on immigration to be completely out of control. Defence seems to confuse them along with the wrecked NHS. It just seems that the future can only be worsened by this type of weak understanding.

  29. Brin Jenkins says:

    Do we need to be esoteric concerning where the Earths heat energy might be stored and the mechanisms involved. Surely hysteresis temperature curves of matter as it changes from form into another are a simple explanation. Freezing water the temperature falls to the freezing point in a uniform fairly straight line graph. As it starts to freeze the energy extraction remains constant but the graph levels off for a prolonged period suddenly dropping again as the state changes to solid. (We understand ice contains energy, and as it melts we are extracting it.)

    We see the same shaped curve in wax as it reaches its melting point and energy input hardly moves the temperature until it is liquid. The interesting thing is both materials require a lower temp to revert to solid. Its the overlaid graphs I find so interesting in the shape produced. This both absorbs and releases considerable energy with little temperature variation.

    Talking of the quantum physics properties of a minor gas CO2, is a nightmare to comprehend and quantify, but Polar Ice is much more physical and apparent. Can it make a difference? Can the likely mechanism be explained this way and measured to prove the temperature hold is meaningful?

    I remain very skeptical with the overcomplicated and illogical CO2 argument being a cause of any imminent catastrophe. Or have I got it all wrong and there is a better explanation?

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