“Let my people go”

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Or rather, let their people go.  There is a lot of excitement in the media about individuals and families setting off to Syria.  .  I was about to Tweet “If there are people and families who’d rather be in Syria than in Britain – why not just let them go?”   Then I decided that the issue was a little too complex to be dealt with in 140 characters.

On the face of it, if people would really rather be in Syria, and at immediate risk of death from barrel-bombs or beheading, we may question their sanity, but it seems to me that their loyalties are elsewhere, and we’d be better off without them.

But other questions arise.  In some cases, families take children with them.  Should we not at least protect the children from the perils and privations of today’s Syria?  Tough question.  But I take the strong view that parents have to take responsibility for their children.  Clearly in the view of reasonable people in Britain, the idea of taking a family to Syria, or indeed of going there at all, is simply crazy.  But to those who want to go, presumably they see us in the West as crazy.  They’re wrong, but they’re entitled to their point of view. Throughout history, and rightly or wrongly, people have made sacrifices for their country or their faith.  We may think they’re mistaken, but perhaps we should respect their right to be mistaken.

Of course a more difficult question arises with young people who’ve been radicalised – groomed – on the internet, and have sought to join ISIL without parental involvement.  I think there’s a parallel here with sexual grooming (and given the reported ISIL practice of allocating jihadi husbands to teenage girls who come to them, maybe it’s a very close parallel).  We set an age limit.  Below that age, grooming is an offence, and children are entitled to protection.  Above the age limit, these young people are regarded as adults, and are able to make, and take responsibility, for their own decisions.

Any age limit in this context is a blunt instrument, and takes no account of the fact that children mature at different rates.  But there seems to be no viable alternative.

Finally, there is the question of the risk to our society if these people come back as zealots and battle-hardened terrorists, determined to do us harm.  But bear in mind I said “Let them go”.  I did not say “Let them come back”.

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37 Responses to “Let my people go”

  1. afwheately says:

    140 characters may be enough to express a point of view, but it is nowhere near enough to make an argument, especially on as complex a subjects as this. A point of view can identify people who are like-minded, or dislike-minded, but you need a well argued case to change minds.

    On this topic I find myself like-minded, and the supporting argument is welcome.

  2. tapestory says:

    Someone is paying them to go. Money is involved. Those who want war make cash available to those willing to take part. Otherwise war couldn’t happen. The same people who fund all sides. It’s a mug’s game, only enjoyed by the very rich who manipulate everyone else into either sacrificing their lives, or taking the lives of others, or both.

    Religions are the background to all wars. Religions are manipulated histories designed to fool the masses into carrying out the wishes of the powerful. Islam, Christianity and Judaeism are all Abrahamic, monotheistic, salvationist, patriarchal religions created by those who want war. Human beings need to drop all of them, and realise that we are above all human beings, not tools of empire-builders, and incapable of organising ourselves without war.

  3. PJ says:

    The is very simple Roger-as you said “Let my people go”. If these people are so stupid as to think that they are better off elsewhere (Syria) then I’m afraid it clearly shows that their loyalties are NOT with the country that clothes them & feeds them – so let them go. One can have no sympathy with these people and they are obviously a threat to this country.
    On the question of their offspring, well, children are after all only children but they are obviously being brought up (home indoctrination etc) by their unstable parents who’s beliefs go far beyond any normal British persons beliefs so they are no loss either as they would likely turn out as threats to this country as well.
    Why this country/government insists on parenting every child itself is totally beyond me Roger! I was born in the ’50’s when you simply played in the streets, the garden, the local ‘rec’, got bumps & scrapes, bruises, a clip round the ear for some misdemeanour or other and (God forbid) lived in a smoking household! I am still here, gazing in absolute wonderment at the ‘nambypamby’ society we have bred since the so called do-gooders got a foot in the door! It is ridiculous that government should even consider the offspring of these demented people but it is absolutely spot on that the minute they leave these shores, they totally renounce their rights to re-entry.
    Long live Britain – what’s left of it!!!

  4. Ex-expat Colin says:

    If you have ever walked/driven through inhabited areas of the middle east you would be left wondering why such people would wish to go wayback into poverty and gloom. Not talking about high rise stuff (stuffed on top of) here, most of that’s called Cairo. Cockroach infested, dusty and rubbish strewn everywhere, along with some sort of utility supply…usually a gas bottle and bottled water.

    Might be the old man/men forcing them back, along with the modern confused, can’t get sex younger variant? The old man immediately gains status…no challenge amongst more old men. The young man …well, just imagine? Still no sex, unless ISIS and the like helps.

    They’ll need to get their kids tuned in to it, so that the lasting misery to them and us continues. But they only follow one side of that. Of course they would reject any notion of child protection from us…too many of them have child (add descriptors) of their own…as we are now well aware!

    Just popping off to the Haj whatever, then on for a bit of this and that. Murder a good few…and all the while on UK benefits. Exciting stuff?

  5. ian wragg says:

    Ex Pat Colin. The first priority should be to stop their benefits and reclaim any property. The thought of being penniless and homeless might concentrate a few minds.
    I worked over 20 years in Africa and the Middle East so I realise there is no such thing as moderate Islam. Its 100% or nought and the nought is punishable by death.
    Let’em go and stop them returning.

  6. Ex-expat Colin says:

    Not a lot appears to happen with it..like the mess both sides of Calais. No hope of anything effective really.

    Yep..let them rot because thats what too many would wish us. One thing I did not get in S. Arabia and that was being goaded by Choudary types. And any non indigenous (largely asian) dropping out of line there had the likes of me finding what hell hole jail they were in…to feed them amongst the balls and chains. Medieval/Victorian it sure was and they are welcome!

  7. John Poynton says:

    Completely agree about “let them go”, including the children, but not about stopping them returning if they hold British passports. 90% of them will have grown up very fast and no longer pose a problem, and the remaining 10% we can keep a close eye on, bearing in mind they have not committed any crime within the UK.
    Just as urgent though is where we put the migrants trying to come here. They can’t go back, and they can’t come here, so we must find somewhere abroad, preferably a long way from the UK, where we can set up and run, decently, a massive refugee camp. We can do this unilaterally. The Falklands comes to mind, though there may be better places. Just scoop them up in Calais or wherever found and then send them straight out there. All the paperwork can be done when they arrive, and any Frenchmen scooped up by mistake can be sent back when the plane returns. Both economic migrants and genuine refugees can stay they until they change their minds, and any Syrian returnees who are convicted in court can be sent there as well.

  8. Jane Davies says:

    I’m in total agreement, if they go then it must be impressed upon them before and on the day of leaving they will never be allowed back. One fly in the ointment though. What if any of those who wish to go are British born and bred? Can HR customs refuse entry to a British citizen into the country of their birth?

  9. Flyinthesky says:

    All these situations require nettle grasping but none of our politicians have any gloves.
    Nobody in office dare admit it’s a disaster on a global scale and take any credible steps to address it.
    As we know anyone who even makes a suggestion along the lines of reality is immediately castigated by the professional offended by proxy brigade.
    What about the children! a lot of them are as programmed as their parents. If we intercept the children, the parents go to Syria or wherever and further down the line the parents get killed or are refused readmission to the country they’re going to kick off big style.
    When I lived in other countries I became subservient to their culture I had no expectation for them to accommodate mine.
    Multiculturalism is an ideal that has no basis in reality, if you want to live in another country you accept the culture of the majority. In the absence of resolution by TPTB this question, beyond my lifespan, will be resolved on the streets.
    We all know there are moderates in the ranks but they are, to a certain extent, complicit by their silence. If they enjoy our lifestyle and the benefits of it they should vociferously defend it.
    “Turn out coffee coloured people by the score” seems a couple of centuries premature. It will happen but it has to happen by itself, it cannot be legislated.

  10. Richard111 says:

    Can anyone explain what constitutes treason? Especially with regard to British born and bred. (That ‘bred’ makes a mockery of ‘British’.)

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      Activities undertaken to disrupt and ultimately cause the downfall/destruction of authority and the state.

      And we know who is doing that and not just here in UK.

  11. Katie says:

    I’d be happy to pay their air fares. Good riddance to bad rubbish is what I say. They come here, expect us to be good to them and then this is how we get repaid. Let them go, save our money looking for them and don’t let them back. Easier said than done though when we are told we must take them back and we must enjoy multiculturalism and all that crap. This used to be our country. One that has been built up over many centuries and fought for with lives lost to establish our freedom. We now see it slowly being eroded and taken over by foreigners who know nothing of our culture and want to destroy it. On the news this morning they were talking about child refugees from Africa and how our local authorities have a duty of care towards them having to house and educate them. This is becoming increasingly difficult financially for them. The numbers are going up year on year. How long is this madness going to continue? When all the illegal immigrants from North Africa get into Europe they will all get citizenship and then come to the UK and we won’t be able to stop them. Why the hell does Greece want the problem? Haven’t they got enough troubles on their plates to contend with without all of this. Italy too. No wonder they want rid of them. Still Cameron will open the floodgates and let them all in. What the hell is he negotiating for in Europe anyway? Does anyone really know?

  12. catweazle666 says:

    Good riddance.

    Revoke their British nationality, clearly this will not render them stateless as they have transferred their allegiance to Islamic State.

    Any that do try to return, charge them with treason and deal with them accordingly.

  13. Richard111 says:

    As Katie says, “The numbers are going up year on year.”
    Global population is on target to hit 8 billion by 2020. With population doubling every 40 years we can expect 16 billion by 2060. Can never happen some claim. Well, at the rate technology is being closed down and the expected climate change, (you work out which) war is inevitable.
    The ruling powers have chosen the wrong path.

  14. DICK R says:

    Climate change is BOLLOCKS .

    • absolutelypassionate says:

      @DickR
      Climate Change is real and has been continuous since the Earth formed.

      • ian wragg says:

        Correct. But shutting down our power stations and refusing to build water storage whilst importing a million foreigners (many wishing to harm us) annually will not stop the climate changing.
        We are due a cold spell soon and no doubt it will require more tax and decarbonisation to warm up the planet.

  15. Richard111 says:

    Couldn’t agree more DICK R. Just that my belief is the world we live on is already in an the ice age. We’ve been in it for 6,000 years. Each past warm period has been warmer. The latest cold periods are getting cooler. Many thousands of years yet before we get mile high ice over Glasgow. The big problem for us is the current reduction in the growing seasons and the increasing food requirement for a massively expanding population. Then the stupid people in power decide that ‘bio-fuels’ will save the world, like shipping wood chippings from Canada to burn in our power stations. That is massive insanity but it seems people believe it is a good idea. Well, I say, go for it. You won’t have the where with all to make a complaint when TSHTF.

  16. David says:

    Agreed with all above.

  17. David says:

    I was told by a lady only last Saturday who used to be a nurse, that a consulktant of the muslim faith, working in the nhs aqt time of 9/11 said it was a shame there were not many more in the 2 towers. She recently attended the hospital where she worked, and there he was still attending to our “Care”

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      My son told me something today about the 1 min silence. When he was in Balfour Beatty as an IT worker around 9/11 whatever…the 1 min silence initiated to the background of muzzies of that company wailing on about america will pay la, la la.

      Nothing was done of course!

      • Richard111 says:

        I read in the paper today a student’s art work was taken down from the school hall in case it offended muslims.

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        Think Gert Wilders is soon to bring some here? You know…the freedom of expression stuff. Bullets, JCBs and Sledge Hammers used as erasers.

  18. Richard111 says:

    Looking at the way this man is dressed I do not hold out much hope for the UK government.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/589090/ISIS-flag-man-not-arrested

    That flag could be covering a lot of explosives.

    • Jane Davies says:

      Once again the PC is affecting the law, isn’t it enough that British citizens find this blatant parade of this flag offensive and in doing so would disturb the peace? This man was being provocative and if the ‘law’ allows him to do this then change the law.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      None of our reps will do anything about this, no matter how many killings/maiming are shown. As today with all the 7/7 stuff. They’ll fling a complaint back at us with added twists. They know that they are alone I suspect and would be dropped by their peers if they pursued action.

      They just stick two fingers at us, knowing full well that we’ll do nothing other than supply them with benefits. We have to wait for the next UK atrocity for the handwringing to commence again..

      BBC R4 this am – ex head of MI5 Stella Rimington blamed us (the people) for picking up on Islam. We see it enough times with most everything else related and this stupid female blames the people of UK…WTF!!

      • Jane Davies says:

        It’s the blame culture that pervades today’s society. After all it’s Joe Bloggs who is responsible for the so called austerity measures being needed not the politicians who can’t run a p***up in a brewery. So to teach them a lesson the average Joe needs to learn to live on less, meanwhile the rich look down on the plebs telling them the error of their ways, and book the Lear jet to jet off the some Island to get away from it all.

  19. Richard111 says:

    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/cleric-said-to-be-behind-tunisian-beach-massacre-is-living-on-benefits-in-britain/ar-AAcBJaW?ocid=mailsignoutmd

    “”Asked how he could justify taking so much in benefits, al-Sibai, who is under investigation suspected of benefit fraud, told the Daily Mail: “Ask David Cameron, don’t ask me.” “”

    So who runs this country?

    • Jane Davies says:

      Not the present government that’s for sure. Failure to lead and protect the citizens against those whose mission is to destroy should be a treasonable offence.

    • Jane Davies says:

      “The Department for Work and Pensions said: “People who commit, plan and support acts of terror will be prosecuted and anyone who has been deported or sent to prison will lose their benefits.’ The Home Office said: ‘We do not routinely comment on individual cases.”
      So they have known about this vile creature since at least 2013 so why is he still in the UK and living off taxpayers hard earned?

      When is Cameron going to grow a backbone and kick ALL of these vile people out?

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