Daily Debrief June 8th

Only 15 days to Independence Day!

Farage/Cameron: the debate that wasn’t

It’s a great shame that Cameron has chickened out of a proper head-to-head debate with Nigel Farage.  Nigel would have challenged a whole series of Dave’s false assertions and implications.

Cameron repeatedly spoke of economic damage following Brexit as though it were an established fact, rather than a highly contentious opinion.  He constantly reverted to his theme of “the Single Market”, saying that “we would lose access” after Brexit.  No doubt he knew what he meant, but the average viewer would have concluded that “loss of access” meant that trade would stop dead (compare Stephen Kinnock MP’s preposterous comment that Brexit would lead to the “devastation and destruction of our entire export sector”).  Cameron insisted that “market access” necessarily implied free movement of people, and submission to EU regulation.

He seems blissfully unaware that most countries in the world are not in the EU; most countries trade with the EU; many countries have free trade deals with the EU; none of those countries (leaving aside the special cases of Norway and Switzerland) have free movement deals, or are subject to EU legislation.  Like most Remain apologists, he also seemed to conflate “meeting EU product specs on exports to the EU” (a commonplace of international trade) with whole economies subject to the full weight of EU law.

Nigel gave an excellent account of himself, and of the case for Brexit, despite having to face much more articulate, persistent and aggressive questions than those put afterwards to Cameron.

“Quitters”: Cameron insisted that only quitters who don’t love Britain would back Brexit. But it’s common sense, not quitting, to leave the sinking ship.  And it’s madness to stay and fight for reform when we have four decades of experience proving that approach doesn’t work.  Cameron also repeated the mendacious “Little England” slur.  He knows better than anyone else that the Leave Campaign is for global trade and global engagement, and against a Britain that is no more than an off-shore province in a country called Europe.

Brexit team challenges Cameron to debate: Yesterday’s ITV Cameron/Farage programme was in no sense a proper debate.  But Boris and Michael Gove have challenged Cameron to a face-to-face debate – something he’s always sought to avoid. Smart move.  If he accepts, he’ll lose.  If he refuses or prevaricates, he’ll look scared and shifty.

EU judges open the door to illegal immigrants

The Sun, under the headline “CHECKPOINT CHARLIES”, reports a ruling by EU judges that, in effect, it is illegal to lock up illegal migrants. Dominic Raab said the judgement “made a mockery of border controls”.

Meantime The Mail reports a new European Commission plan to control the influx of migrants – by inviting more to come from Africa and the Middle East, offering them US-style green cards enabling them to work and travel in the EU.  Lucky the EU isn’t responsible for firefighting – they’d use petrol instead of water.

EU threat to pensions

The Express reports a warning (headline “New EU threat to your pension”) from Edi Truell, former chairman of the London Pension Fund Authority and founder of the Pension Insurance Corporation that proposed new EU tax legislation will impose costs of many billions of pounds on UK pension schemes, and warns we must vote for Brexit to avoid the threat.  This is all part of the EU taxation proposals which I spoke of yesterday in Strasbourg.

Dominic Raab: European criminals free to live in Britain

This is a story I should have covered yesterday (but I was rushing to get to the hemicycle for my three minutes on tax harmonisation).  Under-Secretary at the Ministry of Justice, Dominic Raab, who works closely with Michael Gove, has said that European murderers, rapists and violent offenders have been allowed to stay in Britain after their crimes.  He presented a dossier of 50 serious offenders who have used EU rules to remain in the UK, and who now, he says, represent a danger to British citizens.  He described this as “evidence of how the EU makes us less safe”.

Later Raab appeared on Good Morning Britain, interviewed by Piers Morgan, who reportedly attracted a raft of viewer complaints as he hectored Raab and simply refused to let him answer questions.  Morgan was accused of “trying to censor pro-Brexit opinions”.

A Priti disgraceful story

Yesterday I wrote about cultural attitudes to women in the context of mass immigration from the Middle East and North Africa.  But we ourselves are not entirely free of attitudes which many of us would find reprehensible.  Tim Roache, leader of the GMB Union and a prominent Remain campaigner, is reported as saying that Minister Priti Patel’s name was “a contradiction”. Allies of Ms. Patel asked if Tim Roache was “sexist, racist or blind”.  Perhaps all three.  Roache sought to wriggle out of his egregious comment by saying he meant “her views on the EU are not pretty”.  Not many people will find that convincing.  But petty insults seem to be the order of the day.  Maybe Sir John Major didn’t mean it when he called Boris Johnson “The Court Jester”. I suspect that Boris is at least as smart as Sir John.

EU red tape “condemning cancer patients to an early death”

Several papers including the Telegraph report that long delays in EU approval for new cancer drugs (without which the drugs cannot be used in the UK) is condemning some cancer patients to an early death.  It is reported at the world’s largest cancer conference, in Chicago, that the drug palbociclib almost doubled the amount of time that the disease was stalled.  But the EU has been considering it for eighteen months without so far reaching a decision.

Holland sends in the troops

Holland has deployed its Army to check lorries leaving for the UK for migrants, after a spike in the number of stowaways seeking to reach Britain.  Nearly 500 have been stopped in the first four months of this year – as many as the total for 2015.  Let’s be glad that someone is taking the problem seriously.  Well done Holland.

Asa Bennett: Is Nigel the man?

Asa Bennett in the Telegraph asks whether Nigel is the right man to front the Brexit case, pointing out that he is trusted by only up to 28% of the electorate.  But last time I checked, David Cameron’s “trust” figure was in the teens, so maybe Asa needs some perspective.

The thoughts of William Hague

In an op-ed piece, Hague picks up a recurring Remain Campaign theme.  Why won’t the Leave Campaign tell us how many jobs will be affected?  Why don’t they present a detailed economic plan?  How can we trust them without such a plan?  But this is a weasel question – but also a great technique in politics.  Construct a question which your opponent can’t reasonably be expected to answer – then castigate him for not answering it.

So why is the question impossible to answer?  Quite simply, because we’re campaigning in a referendum, not a General Election.  If you have a political party campaigning in a General Election, then of course they must answer the question “If elected as a government, what is your economic plan?”.  Fair question.  Any party that didn’t have an answer would rightly be criticised.  But the Leave Campaign isn’t campaigning to be a government.  Even if it wins, David Cameron (or his successor) will remain Prime Minister.  The Leave campaign is an alliance of very different politicians.  Some would accept the Norway or Switzerland pattern.  Others want a complete break.  Some say it’s essential to stay in the Single Market.  Others believe we should do better out of it entirely. Yet all agree that we should be Better Off Out.  Boris Johnson and Kate Hoey are both campaigning for Leave – but would undoubtedly have very different economic policies for an independent Britain.  The Remain Campaign is the same – we have seen a Tory Prime Minister share a platform with a prominent Labour MP plus leaders of the Greens and the Lib-Dems.  You wouldn’t expect Remain to have a single economic policy, and nor should Hague demand it of Leave.

But there is a second reason why we can’t present a detailed plan.  After Brexit, we shall have a two-year negotiation for new trade terms with the EU, and while we can set some broad parameters – for example, we shall be no worse off than WTO third-country arm’s length terms – we cannot say before we start exactly what the outcome will be.  If Hague is saying we should never negotiate anything because we’re uncertain of the outcome of the negotiation, that would be a recipe for never doing anything.  And of course we can put the question the other way.  Tell us, William – what will happen if we vote to Remain? Will we have any influence in Brussels after we’ve run up the white flag and capitulated?  Will Turkey join the EU?  How many immigrants will come to Britain next year – and the year after?  When will the next €uro crisis hit us?  With EU energy policies, when will the lights go out?  How many more Port Talbots will there be?  How many more industrial jobs lost because of perverse EU policies?  Will Southern Europe ever emerge from recession?

I recall that George Osborne has offered us plans to eliminate the deficit – but has never delivered.  It’s easy to offer a plan – and fail to deliver.  Much harder to be honest and say “We can give you some pointers, but no one in politics can ever guarantee that a forecast is 100% secure”.








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17 Responses to Daily Debrief June 8th

  1. “compare Stephen Kinnock MP”

    Doncha just love the Labour party’s nepotism? Stephen Kinnock, Hillary Benn, David Prescott, Georgia Gould, Joe Dromey, Euan Blair, Will Straw

    The Labour party: keeping it in the family since 1924

  2. davidbuckingham says:

    Cameron on Turkey….

  3. Kevan Chippindall-Higgin says:

    Roger, there is one detail you have overlooked. When he started negotiating for real, the first thing that Cameron said was that regardless of the outcome, he would campaign to remain. He achieved the square root of virtually nothing and that can be ignored. After all, not paying EU citizens benefits for 4 years but everybody, including non EU citizens, get them is racism.

    However, there is another matter you might be able to shed some light upon. At the end of December 2011, France and Germany had some master-plan for the euro which Cameron vetoed. Result!?

    Not really. According to the Guardian, the other members simply went ahead anyway. I though the whole idea of a veto, like the concept of black balling a potential club member, was that the idea died there and then.

    I would suggest that if you could find out a bit more about this and prove that even if we exercise our veto, the EU ignores it. This means that even our biggest lever is worthless and finally exposes the lie that we have influence.

    • catweazle666 says:

      “When he started negotiating for real…”

      When he did what?

      Sorry, I must have missed that!

  4. RODNEY OLLEY says:

    This campaign has gotten so dirty from the remain side that one even wonders if the crash was engineered to make an excuse for extra time to be given. The same website survived the pre general election surge. The remainers want more young voters because they believe they are easier to con. I know they are correct in this thinking having been a communist in my teenage along with a lot of others in my then age group.

  5. MIKE MAUNDER says:

    I think Nigel Farage did as good a job as he could, considering that Cameron on the other side was scared to death of debate, by way of face to face confrontation. I had thought that Eaton school turned out more able guys than that, but I’m proved wrong !
    We have had all the Trade and Economics data, and people will make of that what they will, but I go back to proven facts. We joined by way of lies from Edward Heath. Slow and quiet, and with assistance from our own Governments, Sovereignty was taken from us by little nibbles that were not noticed. The Grand Slam is about to take place if we vote to stay in, and the slow and quiet will be replaced by edicts from the unelected Masters of Europe. Cameron saw votes go to UKIP, so took on their clothes as Tory policy. – The Referendum. Then, blow me backwards as he chickened out of debate with the owner of those clothes. Wow, what a man ? !
    A strange unity takes place with all Party leaders, and Neil Kinnock’s financial standing, post Commission membership, is taken full notice of. Much jumping on the band-waggon takes place, and the Nation and People can go hang ! A disturbing release of ‘Secret’ papers, due to 30 year rule and Freedom of Information Act, shows the level of assistance given to the E.U. by our Governments of both Parties. This should be made more of, so that when we leave the E.U., UKIP should get rid of the Career M.Ps and their Party’s disloyalty to the Nation.

  6. Ex-expat Colin says:

    That reform thing…he’s always spouting on about it…me, me ,me…me! The reform I would consider is a nigh on catastrophic cull in Brussels and that sees the German Govt caste adrift.

    And all these rules we can’t influence because we won’t be at the top lunch table. Think most (like TPD) are from our numb representatives in Brussels. Too many rules/regs concerning products anyway. Even if we were lunching we couldn’t stop any of it, so let the remaining 20 odd states get on with it all and get tangled. Eventually a lot of trade will go elsewhere to avoid stupid rules…have they thought that out yet?

  7. terry sullivan says:

    need to concentrate on Turkey?

    • catweazle666 says:

      Looks like Merkel’s love affair with the Islamist pig Erdogan is getting a bit flaky, seems he’s taking out contracts on German politicians.

      Several German MPs have received death threats since the Turkish leader rounded on them in the wake of last week’s historic vote to recognise the Armenian genocide of 1915.

      Mr Erdogan accused German MPs of Turkish origin of being “terrorist supporters”. He claimed they were “the voice” of the separatist Kurdistan Worker’s Party (PKK), which he has blamed for recent terror attacks in Turkey.

      Cem Özdemir, joint leader of the German Green Party, has been placed under police protection, after Mr Erdogan singled him out in a remarkable outburst, reportedly demanding he undergo blood tests to prove his Turkish origins.


      • Jane Davies says:

        A big BIG mistake if Turkey is allowed to join……too many hot heads in power in that country. Do the EU bureaucrats, and especially Merkel, have a death wish? War in Europe is in the future if this is allowed to happen.

  8. Ex-expat Colin says:

    So when the dust settles and Remain get to win the UK is going to fill up with useless people pretty quick? Most of them will be if Cameron is right. And all of a sudden we educate those here that we want for our jobs…just like that. I assume thats the ferals etc that don’t work now while drawing benefits.

    Could we do a swap with Romania and such…each worker from there is swapped with one (feral) from here..preferably two. Classed as wider work experience?

  9. Shieldsman says:

    Does Cameron have a VETO on anything? A new treaty that the Commission and Parliament are frightened to engage on, possibly. The leadership (German) want to progress by use of QMV.

    Today’s Telegraph: Letters: The deal that the EU will always deny Britain is control of the free movement of migrants (note the wording of the Editorship)
    SIR – Immigration is a bit of a deal-breaker in the campaign, so why have we heard nothing from David Cameron about the “emergency brake” he brought back from Brussels?
    Tim Cullen Pyecombe Street, West Sussex
    The simple answer is that it was not a done deal. In fact it may never be presented (unless we stay in the EU) in whatever form to the European Parliament and passed by QMV.

    Martin Schulz said it could not be guaranteed.
    Alexander Graf Lambsdorff Vice-President of the European Parliament was asked: Before the European Council summit in February you warned that the planned “emergency brake” would be discriminatory and put a nail in the coffin of European freedom of movement. Did the Council go too far in its concessions to the British government?
    On this issue, it clearly went too far. We are talking about one of the four fundamental freedoms of the internal market, which from a liberal point of view is the most important part of European integration.
    Those in favour of an emergency brake on the free movement of workers, will see that sooner or later others will come up with the same idea regarding the free provision of services, the free movement of goods and the free movement of capital – destroying the internal market as we know it.
    For the emergency brake to come into force, the EU directive on free movement has to be modified, which can only be done with the consent of the European Parliament. Should the Parliament use this opportunity to amend the Council’s proposal?
    I’m sure that I will certainly not agree to a change of the directive, as it would restrict one of our basic fundamental freedoms. I assume that many in my group, as well as my colleagues in the EPP and S&D group will feel the same.
    Then of course if we do stay in the EU and it is passed the ECJ comes into play on the trigger for its operation.

    Cameron gets right up my nose. Considering his expensive education he never learned to use a Dictionary.
    Having misused the words- Sovereignty, loyalty, ammoral, he (and Anna Soubry) is at it again with PATRIOT
    OED: Patriot noun a person who vigorously supports their Country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
    My Country of birth is England and part of the United Kingdom. My LOYALTY is to my Country.
    The EU is not a Country and Europe is a continent.

  10. Shieldsman says:

    I have just caught up with Andrew Neil interviewing Hilary Benn. Andrew Neil repeatedly pushed him on whether immigration could be controlled inside the EU, and Benn repeatedly flannelled. It was only at the third time of asking that Benn said, essentially, that EU immigration was necessary for membership of the single market and, therefore, worth it.

    As pointed out above the emergency brake which Benn referred to is not a done deal.

  11. Jane Davies says:

    So last nights audience was made up of unbiased ordinary folk was it? I don’t care what colour a persons skin is if you ask a question then continue to shout over the answer you are a rude ignorant rats rear end.


    • catweazle666 says:

      It appears that the egregious Imriel Morgan was in fact expressly invited to the program by ITV.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      Viewing that had me wondering about ordinary folk…all too well scripted I thought. Followed up by Osborne on Andrew Neil interview yesterday yelling about not wanting a Nigel Farage type UK. He got a bit uncontrolled I’d say… freaked?

      Cameron pushing the little England piece in a big world…the frighteners be with you? Yes, dependency on the EU is frightening and we should not be tied in there at all.

      • catweazle666 says:

        The audience was hand picked by the producer, who has a record of anti-UKIP propagandising. Seems ITV are taking leaves out ot the BBC’s book.

        REVEALED: ITV Producer Behind ‘Stitch Up’ Debate Has History Of Anti-‘Leave’ Tweets

        The ITV producer behind the attempt to portray Brexiteers – those supporting Britain leaving the European Union – as “only” older people, has a track record of anti-Leave rhetoric, Breitbart London can reveal.

        On her Twitter profile which she uses to solicit interviews for ITV News, Rachel Bradley has tweeted a number of messages mocking and deriding Leave campaigners, especially targeting UKIP leader Nigel Farage and heaping praise on the most prominent Remain campaigner, Prime Minister David Cameron.


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