Post referendum debrief August 4

Non, je ne regrette rien, as the French might say…

A YouGov poll for The Times has found no evidence that voters regretted the decision to leave the EU. Asked whether Britain was “right or wrong to leave the EU”, 46 per cent of respondents said that it had been the right decision and 42 per cent said that it had been the wrong one. Meanwhile, the Conservatives have secured their biggest poll lead since winning power, according to the poll. The Conservatives are on 42 per cent, followed by Labour on 28 per cent, UKIP on 12 per cent, and the Lib Dems on 8 per cent.

Separately, a 16-country poll by Ipsos MORI has found that 56 per cent of Britons think the UK should receive favourable exit terms, more than twice as many as in Germany, Belgium and France. Countries outside the EU generally want to see more favourable terms –  for example, 52 per cent in South Africa and 51 per cent in India say the terms should be favourable.

Italians are the most positive EU members about the overall impact of Brexit on Britain: 41 per cent say it will make the UK weaker, but 34 per cent say stronger, compared to 64 per cent in Germany and Spain who say the vote will weaken the UK. Views are even more positive outside the EU –  Russia and India in particular are more likely to say the UK will be stronger (47 per cent and 44 per cent respectively) than weaker (17 per cent and 36 per cent). The US is evenly split, with 32 per cent saying the UK will be weaker but 33 per cent saying the UK will be stronger.

Meanwhile, 39 per cent of people in EU countries say they are sad to see Britain leave, while 13 per cent say they are happy. Swedes are the most likely to be sad to see Britain go (48 per cent), while the French are the least likely to be sad (25 per cent).

PM to seek views of small business owners

Reuters reports that Theresa May will ask small businesses to set out what they want from Brexit negotiations so they can take advantage of the UK leaving the EU. The Prime Minister will today host a roundtable with small and medium-sized enterprises with less than 250 employees and trade associations in Downing Street, including the Federation of Small Businesses and British Chambers of Commerce.

Lord Heseltine makes a mockery of democracy 

The Daily Express reports how Lord Heseltine made a mockery of British democracy today as he claimed the people’s vote on Brexit was not valid as it could only be pushed through by the House of Commons.

Speaking on Radio 4 this morning, the former Tory leadership contender said: “The jury is out. The referendum has said Brexit but no one knows what Brexit is.”

 

With respect Lord Heseltine, I think the people of the UK do understand what they voted for…

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53 Responses to Post referendum debrief August 4

  1. Anyoldiron says:

    The people do understand, for it is the people that fought in that last WAR, rather than have foreigners Governing us. What if the choice for those two Houses of Parliament was to chose to come out of the EU and actually Govern all in this truly GREAT Country by and through its very own Common Law Constitution at last? OR, Remain in the EU and allow the REGIONS to do the foreigners Governing, and empty completely those two Houses of Parliament for all they seem able to do is obey foreigners-which our own Constitution forbids. (And why my Generation went to WAR in 1939-1945). My Generation fought a full scale WAR so that our own Government-those we freely elect- could indeed Govern us by and through our very own Common Law Constitution. No delay-for the people have spoken.

    • MIKE MAUNDER says:

      Heseltine is the nearly man ! Nearly PM. He is these days a bit of a bitter old man and can only carp at everything that does not go to his wishes. Anyoldiron hits middle wicket with his view of the senior generation at last getting this Nation’s sovereignty back into our own hands. It should never have passed to foreigners in the first place. It is a fact that the senior generation is very special, as they won the war as well !

      • KennieD says:

        Heseltine is just frightened of losing his many, many thousands of GBP grants by way of EU CAP for his land.

    • lasancmt says:

      What a rambling piece of ill conceived logic. First of all the people who fought in WWII are mostly dead. So unless you are an octagenarian you speak for no one. The war hero’s I have heard reported were all dead against #brexit anyway http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-second-world-war-veterans-come-out-against-brexit-a7019646.html

      Secondly You are talking bullocks about a UK constituation. The UK doesn’t have one, never had one. You’re all serfs

      • KennieD says:

        So the Independent has got together a group of WWII vets and got them to say they want UK to stay friends with EU countries. I am sure the DT or the Speccie could collect an equal number of vets to say the opposite.
        The UK does have a Constitution. It is not written in just one single document, but it is based on Common Law. A lot of our rights under this were given away by the Blair creature, such as ‘the right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty’.

      • Simon Blanchard says:

        Yes they keep saying we don’t have a constitution, but we do. It is not written in stone or on one piece of paper, but on hundreds and thousands of individual pieces of law that evolved over time. However the Bill of Rights 1688 though is a unique contract between the people and parliament (Parliament includes the 3 houses, HoC, HoL and the Monarch). It forms the basis of our “Constitutional” monarchy and established the principle of the rule of law.
        The Commons and Lords and Queen are bound by that contract, but they don’t like to admit it.
        The individuals who gave us Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus, prima facie, the Bill of Rights and a whole host of other written constitutional laws are all dead and buried. Should we throw all that away because they all dead? 1200 years worth of English law, for an inferior foreign laws based on the presumption of guilt (Napoleonic law)? Should we throw away the idea of “god given” rights from birth, to a system where the State gives you you rights (with conditions)?Should we throw away the principle of “no government can bind its successor”, because the people who came up with all these ideas and laws are now pushing up the daisies?
        Some ideas and laws are worth defending, others that turn out bad being ditched. Being able to say how we run our own affairs domestic and foreign are worth defending.

      • lasancmt says:

        Well where was this body of law when it came to getting a million Brits off this dreaded national DNA database a few years back? It was a court in Strassbourg that defended their civil liberties, not some four hundred years old bit of parchment. S. And Marper vs. UK Government refers.

      • catweazle666 says:

        “Secondly You are talking bullocks about a UK constituation. The UK doesn’t have one, never had one. You’re all serfs”

        Bollocks.

        You don’t know the first thing about the UK’s constitution, hell, you can’t even spell it FFS, you’re a joke!

      • lasancmt says:

        It’s the American way of spelling it but I get your point: sounds a bit foreign so must be dismissed out of hand without giving it proper thought. Typical kipper.

      • Jane Davies says:

        Nope spelt the same in the USA…..

      • lasancmt says:

        In America they they say darned rather than damned, bullocks ( a young bull) rather than bollocks a testicle, but I am sure you kippers know better. Well I know the USA has a written constitution and UK has nothing but a decaying piece of parchment called Magna Carta. They also think they have a thriving empire, a world class exporting industry, they think they can feed themselves as an overpopulated island. I tell you what you do have. A world class financial services industry busy relocating because of brexit. There will be a lot of empty Costas and Starbucks in London soon. You can thank Roger and Nigel for that.

      • catweazle666 says:

        “It’s the American way of spelling it”

        No it isn’t, as a quick perusal of the Internet will inform you.

      • catweazle666 says:

        “and UK has nothing but a decaying piece of parchment called Magna Carta”

        More ignorant drivel.

        We have a great deal more than that.

        You really haven’t a clue, have you?

      • Anyoldiron says:

        I remember very well that last WAR `1939-1945 and am very much alive, for living near the then much used Manchester Ship Canal we were indeed heavily Bombed and eventually bombed out, and I sure am very much alive indeed at present. My brother-older than me- was one of A.V.Roes top design Engineers, and much to his distress, he was not allowed to join the Forces in the WAR, and only when the War was over he was allowed to leave A V Row and joined the Air-force. I asure you lasancmt I am very much alive-and yes-still fighting. As a retired Magistrate I assure you we do indeed still have the very much used Constitutional Documents all of which are still “OURS” and very much used today, and never forget we fought a terrible WAR to keep them. No one can take them from us, especially The GREAT Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights etc all still there and may the always be there. No one can “take them away” for the people have fought two World WARS to keep them and many, so very many gave THEIR lives to keep tham.

      • Oliver K. Manuel says:

        Western democracies were betrayed by their own scientists after WWII, when the western nations and national academies of sciences were united to try “to save the world” from nuclear annihilation by hiding the source of energy F.W. Aston said offered humanity powers beyond the dreams of scientific fiction in the last paragraph of his 1922 Nobel Lecture.

        After Chadwick discovered the neutron in 1932, it became obvious and warring nations used NEUTRON REPULSION to build atomic bombs.

        https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/omg-what-an-epic-rant/#comment-70566

      • lasancmt says:

        Glad your not one of those idiot British bombers that flattened our church after the Americans already liberated us

      • Anyoldiron says:

        BEFORE I DIE.

        Before I die, I need to know WHY
        You each gave our country away?
        Why you signed that treacherous Treaty
        Without giving the people a say?
        Before I die, I need to know HOW
        You managed to deceive us so?
        All those who placed in YOU their trust
        How was it even THEY didn’t know?

        Before I die I need to know WHERE
        We will be able to trust again
        Our fellow man-all on the same side,
        Oh, how I need to know when?
        Before I die I need to know WHO
        Can look me straight in the eye?
        Yet betray once more with that manicured hand
        And for their own ends tell lie after lie?

        Before I die I need to know IF
        Our Country will once more be free?
        So many millions died for that end
        How could you ignore their plea?
        Before I die I would like to KNOW
        How you can sleep at night?
        For heavy the weight will lie on you
        That you didn’t learn wrong from right.

        Before YOU die I want YOU to know
        I’d rather have fought and lost.
        For to do what YOU between you have done
        You WILL come to know the true dreadful cost.
        Before you die I want you to know THAT
        Britannia will once again rule the waves,
        Never again will foreigners rule
        For the English and St George was saved.

      • lasancmt says:

        Before I die I’d like to know where you learned how to be such a fucking drama queen ( just think what these Syrian refugees have to go through in turn at the hands of Assad and ISIS. Then hang your head in shame)

      • catweazle666 says:

        Still whining, little Remoaner troll?

        Isn’t it time you got over it, grew up, and got a life?

    • John Burnett says:

      So did I and we knocked out the V2 sites in the Scheld which saved London

      • AND we beat the Frogs at Waterloo – and Agincourt too!
        As I well remember because I was a young man at the time…

      • Anyoldiron says:

        The above was to those in our Parliament-today- that pay foreigners to Govern us, while I was indeed in that last WAR and living near the much used Manchester Ship Canal in those days, was indeed bombed night after night and in the day-time too at times.

  2. Simon Blanchard says:

    Tarzan of course is wrong about what people voted for, they voted for the UK to leave the EU.
    That’s what it said on the referendum question and during leave campaign the main emphasis was mass immigration concerns, that 70% of the population want control of our own immigration policy returned to Westminster. It has even a Tory manifesto pledge to bring down immigration to the 10’s of thousands.
    That rules OUT the Norway Option, Associate membership, being inside the Single Market (a customs union).

  3. Simon Blanchard says:

    What is not being mentioned much is what will now be MOD policy in regard to merging our military forces with France (Lancaster Hse Agreement 2010). Surely this has national security implications, with France a member of the EU. It is well known that the EU intends to build an EU Army, using the member states own military forces.
    Do we as an independent country wish to have our defense capability, including procurement still dictated to by Brussels and its member states? I think not.

    • ian wragg says:

      There is also security questions, France is well known for undermining UK/US security services.

    • Ex-expat Colin says:

      It’ll be standard NATO and hopefully the mental heads get out of the top of that. Trump may see to it…LOL

      Procurement is messy, but since we are weak economically and major projects take a very long time to complete I suspect we will be joint. That is often the case up and till now. Subs and Warships excluded I’d say along with small arms and Field Arty.

      Trouble is we don’t know what the goons of the last Govts have signed us up to until the unravelling begins. Thats applies to EU everything I think…more mess!

      • Simon Blanchard says:

        One of the best ways of improving on employment and industrial base is defense spending within the UK. There must be many Northern regions as well as other forgotten regions who would benefit from this policy. Naval Ship yards closed in Plymouth for example. It also has an effect on building up the local economy.
        At the moment the EU has competence of where we spend £18 billion budget, dispersing military contracts out into “anywhere but the UK”. It says who and where our military equipment is manufactured. It would be wise for national security reasons to ensure most of our military equipment is sourced and manufactured within the UK and what’s left that we can’t make, is independently sourced on our terms.
        All treaties can be terminated, that is a basic right for all sovereign countries. Any agreement made by a previous government can be undone.

        My first act would be repealing the fraudulant Kyoto protocol, for example.

    • At last! A sensible comment!
      Allow me to help.
      eureferendum.com
      If you would care for a digest of the first five monographs, please e mail me on stallardmike59@gmail.com

  4. Ex-expat Colin says:

    How come its suddenly like this. (apart from the continual day/night background stabbings and shootings)
    London police geared up to tackle Mental Health issues. (can’t say it as it is though)

    And does anybody seriously think its all going to stop? Just had 3 Somalis convicted for drug dealing in Worcester. Not necessarily from Somalia but one is from Leicester the 2 others are from, ummm guess where…..No, not Bristolistan. From that large dump on the Thames.

  5. tjames@doctors.org.uk says:

    Hi

    what is going on at UKIP–a lot of members are threatening to go–see BBLondon. was woolfe stitched up? many think so!

    ps hezza has alzheimers?

    regards

  6. Jane Davies says:

    At 83 I think it’s Heseltine who doesn’t know what Brexit means. Silly old fart, he should just be content to count his millions and stop making irrelevant and patronising comments. The people have voted and now the public servants have to do what they have been told. I know it’s a pain for someone like him, who has shed his humble ancestors and has been one of the elite for so long, to be over ruled by the common folk, who really don’t know what is good for them, and have voted against him and his fellow rich buds. So just suck it up Mr H, the UK will once more be a democracy……. it is what it is.

    • John Burnett says:

      I seriously believe he doesn’t know that sovereignty is where the buck stops and where the buck stops is where the power lies to create change. Sad after all these years of being an effective politician he’s lost the plot

      • catweazle666 says:

        “Sad after all these years of being an effective politician…”

        Really?

        I can’t say I’ve noticed.

        Tarzan with his arrogance and treachery were the main reasons I stopped voting for the Conservatives – and I was no means the only one.

        To think the anti-democratic no-hoper actually believed he had what it took to be the Prime Minister, he never forgave Margaret Thatcher for – in his opinion – preventing him from achieving that ambition.

      • Ex-expat Colin says:

        I didn’t notice either!

  7. Bernard from Bucks says:

    “Theresa May will ask small businesses to set out what they want from Brexit negotiations so they can take advantage of the UK leaving the EU.”
    Small shopkeepers need higher counters!😉

  8. Anyoldiron says:

    THE LAST WORD.

    Millions speak, but know one listens
    On deaf ears falling, is their plea,
    Soon that hand will sign agreement
    To be Governed by those across the sea.

    To watch the slow disintegration
    Of this once proud Nation’s stance,
    Where valiant men fought off a tyrant
    To a fools dream of peace, we must dance?

    What did they do when ‘they’ sat in Parliament?
    Those MP’s we elect each five years?
    Were they true to their Oath of Allegiance?
    Or with Head in hand shed now their tears?

    For none will turn our as expected
    And no one free in this once pleasant land,
    It is our own that will betray us,
    Given away, through slight of hand.

    Soft were the words that were cunningly said,
    “Just a tidying up exercise” that is all,
    Words now recorded forever, but beware.
    When British backs are close to the wall.

    No one can prevent the next chapter,
    For the dreadful deed has been done,
    For home-bred traitors were in disguise
    And were trusted by everyone.

    But forgotten in their glorious moment,
    In the signing away of power,
    The silent millions that have not yet spoken,
    Theirs is the moment, cometh the hour.

    Torn up is the treacherous document,
    The people’s voices at last are heard,
    Is our own Constitution to which all obey
    The people will indeed have “The Last Word”.

    • Oliver K. Manuel says:

      My response to this comment is mistakenly posted above:

      Western democracies were betrayed by their own scientists after WWII, when the western nations and national academies of sciences were united to try “to save the world” from nuclear annihilation by hiding the source of energy F.W. Aston said offered humanity powers beyond the dreams of scientific fiction in the last paragraph of his 1922 Nobel Lecture.

      After Chadwick discovered the neutron in 1932, it became obvious and warring nations used NEUTRON REPULSION to build atomic bombs.

      https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/omg-what-an-epic-rant/#comment-70566

  9. lasancmt says:

    As you seem to have read Dr North brexit monologues Mr. Stallard at least you could confirm that the great Doctor warned many times that these pension liabilities would have to be paid. Instead you just add oil on the fire by calling your friends and neighbour “frogs”. Typical neo-Nazi talk. As for Hezeltine, I seem to remember he wanted helicopters for MOD built by Westland. Kippers have short and selective memories.

  10. Frances Fox says:

    Roger, I have never agreed with Lord Heseltine but Lord Stoddart is the best of the Lords in my opinion.

    Frances Fox

    Peterborough

  11. Oliver K. Manuel says:

    Anyoldiron,

    Tomorrow (8 AUG 2016) will leave scientists representing the United Nations (UN) and United National Academies of Sciences (UNAS) exactly one month to decide whether to finally admit or to deny again before the International London GeoEthics Conference on Climate Change on 8 SEPT 2016, WHY they hid from the public the fact that the source of energy in cores of uranium atoms that destroyed Hiroshima is the same source of energy in the Sun that controls climate change and human destiny, including impulsive super-solar flares that have historically reset human civilization every ~1,000 years – NEUTRON REPULSION.

    Here is the complete Conference program:
    https://geoethic.com/london-conference-2016/

    Here is a one-page summary of the message in precise experimental rest masses of the 3000 types of atoms that comprise all matter to be openly discussed and decided publicly:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/HigherPower.pdf

  12. Anyoldiron says:

    Thank you for that above-most interesting. My Brother would have been most interested in reading Higher Power etc, for he was one of A.V. Roes top design Engineers, sadly he died a few years ago.

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