In a recent blog I referred to Fritz Vahrenholt’s book “The Neglected Sun”. I’ve been aware of this book for some time, and I’ve met the author a couple of times in Brussels. It was first published in the original German as “Die Kalte Sonne” (The Cold Sun), but its English title emphasises its key premise: that the IPCC, in attributing climate change primarily to CO2, has ignored the Sun, which Vahrenholt argues has both a larger and a better-proven impact on climate.
Vahrenholt is remarkable, not so much for the book, as for his previous career, and his intellectual journey. He started out as a socialist politician and passionate environmentalist. Having studied Chemistry in Münster, he started his professional career at the federal environmental protection agency in Berlin, and the Ministry for Environment of Hesse. From 1984 till 1990 he had a leading role in environmental affairs in Hamburg, and became Senator for the Environment in Hamburg from 1991 to 1997. A man of impeccable green credentials.
In 1998 he entered the energy industry, and until 2001 was on the Board of Deutsche Shell AG, a Shell subsidiary. In 2001 he moved to post of CEO of the wind turbine company REpower Systems AG and remained there until 2007. From February 2008 he was CEO of electric power company RWE’s renewables subsidiary RWE Innogy, a post he stepped down from in mid-2012. Professor Doctor Vahrenholt has a doctorate in Chemistry. In 1999 he was made an Honorary Professor of Chemistry at the University of Hamburg.
So far, so successful – but perhaps not astonishing. The remarkable thing is that during his time with Innogy, running a wind farm business, he became concerned and disillusioned to find that the business performed well below expectations, and started looking for the reasons. He also started to look more closely at the whole theory of climate change, and became convinced that the IPCC position – that CO2 is the primary driver of climate – was simply mistaken.
His book assembles an overwhelming case that climate correlates rather poorly with atmospheric CO2, whereas it correlates extremely well with solar activity and astronomical cycles. The IPCC quotes the fact that solar irradiance is fairly constant, and concludes that the sun therefore cannot be a major factor. But it largely ignores the fact that the solar magnetic field varies significantly and cyclically, and it largely ignores the work of scientists like Svensmark, who have demonstrated the link between solar magnetism and terrestrial climate.
The solar magnetic field tends to shield the earth from the cosmic ray flux arriving from space. A weaker magnetic field allows more cosmic rays to reach the earth, which leads to more cloud formation, higher albedo and therefore lower temperatures. It is well established that the extreme cold periods of the little Ice Age, like to Maunder, Dalton and Sporer minima, were associated with very low levels of sunspots and a low solar magnetic field.
There are also major variations in ocean current activity, notably the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), which appear to be associated with solar cycles and with climate patterns. This too is not fully recognised by the IPCC.
The current climate scare is driven by the relative rapid rise in mean global temperatures between 1977 and 2000. When I once challenged the European Commission on their climate obsession, arguing that the changes we have seen were normal and cyclical, they insisted that the recent rise in temperature was so rapid that it must be man-made (how’s that for a non-sequitur?). But of course half a degree in thirty years is trivial compared to say the Younger Dryas 12,000 years ago, when we saw changes of several degrees in an even shorter period – changes which were clearly not man-made.
But we don’t need to go back 12,000 years. In the last 150 years we have seen a steady cyclical recovery from the Little Ice Age, apparently leading to a new 21st Century Optimum (and the word “optimum” is appropriate – warmer temperatures are generally good news). Superimposed on that we see a sixty-year cycle of thirty (approx) years warming, thirty years cooling. Such enhanced warmings took place not just in 1977/200, but in 1910/40, and 1860/80. The rates of warming in all three periods were very similar. There is nothing exceptional about 1977/2000. These cycles closely match changes in the PDO.
And in each case they were followed by thirty years or so of static or declining temperatures – leading, as we know, to the Great Global Cooling scare of 1975. Here at last we have the explanation for the current temperature stasis, which the IPCC is at a loss to explain. We can expect this stasis or cooling to continue to 2030 or so. But there’s another factor: astronomers are warning that solar activity seems to be headed for a very quiet period, comparable to those minima in the Little Ice Age. It could get very cold indeed. Add to that the fact that we’re 12,000 years into an Interglacial, and that interglacials typically last around 12,000 years, and maybe we should worry not about Global Warming, but about the next glaciation. That really will be a climate disaster.
Vahrenholt’s book is packed with hundreds of references to peer-reviewed science (it’s almost comical the way that some green apologists seem to assume that no peer-reviewed science supports the sceptics’ case), so it is not only a well-argued thesis, but a valuable reference source as well. I’ve been reading The Neglected Sun on my shiny new Kindle that I got for Christmas. I’d urge you to read it too, but in this case I suspect that the hard copy might be a better deal, as the coloured graphs come out black-and-white on the Kindle Paperwhite. But before any Warmists out there write to me to tell me that UKIP doesn’t understand the science, please just read Vahrenholt’s book.
Surprisingly Wiki admit there is reason to believe there may be a solar cause for the cooling during the Maunder Minimum. Then spoil it saying the Dalton and Sporer minima have no demonstrable connection to the cooling then. I assume wiki did not have a serious article on the cooling scare of 1975.
There was no cooling scare in 1975. There was just academic discussion that concluded the risk of an approaching ice age had been over-stated by an extreme minority of researchers. See:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm
http://climatecrocks.com/2013/06/07/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley/
I remember reading press articles on the prospects of an Ice Age from the 1950’s onwards. The prospects of any warming never arose then.
There definitely was a cold-climate scare in the late 1960s that lasted about 15 years. As one example, in the US magazine, Newsweek, April 28, 1975, the article, “The Cooling World” will seem quite familiar to those following the current scare over global warming, with the exception that article is discussing the coming crisis over global cooling. For example: “Climatologists are pessimistic that the political leaders will take any possible action to compensate for the climate change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more speculative solutions proposed, such as melting the artic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting artic rivers, might create problems far greater than they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food o of introducing the variables of climate uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climate change once the results become grim reality.”
There was no cooling scare in 1975. There was just academic discussion that concluded the risk of an approaching ice age had been over-stated by an extreme minority of researchers. (i.e. 2nd attempt at comment without links)
I can’t address press articles in the UK in 1975, but here in the USA, there were many articles on global cooling. I have a page of Newsweek, April 28, 1974 as one such example. With one exception, the text reads much like press articles today. The exception, of course, is that the subject was global cooling, rather than global warning.
Re the UK, the article states: “In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant over-all (sic) loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually.”
There were weather extremes: “Last April, in the most devastating oubreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars worth of damage in thirteen states.”
There were pessimistic predictions: “If the climate change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic.” (Shades of Al Gore exaggeration).
Finally: “And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3 percent between 1964 and 1972.”
However many there were, they were wrong and they remain wrong. We are not heading for another Ice Age.
Trying to overt-turn or ignore the modern day consensus that humans are the primary cause of ongoing climate disruption is like trying to over-turn the consensus that the Earth is not flat.
Scepticism is the basis of modern science; a willingness to allow popular beliefs to be falsified by weight of scientific evidence (as Copernicus and Galileo did). It is not a licence to reject all evidence that conflicts with ideological or theological prejudices (as did the Catholic Church 400 years ago).
You’re talking out of your asshole about consensus-there is none, you’re talking out of your asshole about melting, the opposite is happening right now, you’re talking out your asshole about the oceans warming, the instrument record is too short, as of now it shows a slight cooling, you’re talking out of your asshole about Ice Ages, which are very regular climatic occurrences and you have some sort of shamanistic knowledge of when the next one occurs and you’re talking out of your asshole comparing yourself to a persecuted Galileo when it is extremely well documented in Climategate and many other instances how non-compliant scientists are being muzzled by the warm-mongers. I can only imagine what must come out of your mouth.
I must admit I have been surprised by how long it has taken the people on this site to become offensive. Congratulations on your self-control.
Sorry but I clearly recall the usual press furore stating we were heading for an ice age. That was until the mid 80’s, I think, then it went quiet a bit, then post soviet union we had global warming.
I recall clearly during my environmental science studies in 1995/6/7 that it was already accepted in academia that there was global warming [AGW] type. Many of our tutors would feed in tid bits to the free debates which hinted at non acceptance of AGW and watch happily as we became voiciferous and animated, angry even, that people could be in such denial of reality. The culprits were always big business. I recall joining in but as a mature student I didn’t swallow the AGW bible because there were too many unexplained things. Besides I was quite happy with saving the world from industrial polluters of which there are many, I was happy with teaching farmers about sustainable non intensive farming, I was quite happy with sorting out proven polluters.
This AGW lark seemed possible but not something to get worked up about. Looking back the behaviour of the faculty and the younger students reminds me more of rabble rousing than encouraging scientific debate.
Anyone, anyone who thinks you could get a roomfull of scientists to agree what day of the week it is has fantasy problems……………….and the term consensus is not actually scientific, it refers to herd belief. The scientists I grew up with were explorers, investigators and hypothesisers, not political hacks rummaging for funding grants.
Here’s what it is actually all about. Courtesy of the IPCC. I guess somebody slipped a truth drug in his drink..
Neue Zürcher Zeitung, 14 November 2010
Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection, says the German economist and IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer. The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated. – Ottmar Edenhofer
For those who may not know, Ottmar Edenhofer is the co-chair of the IPCC Working Group III.
Facts are facts and should not be confused with what got reported in the press/media at the time.
Apart from a minor aberration between 1996 and 2003, I have been a life-long Conservative voter. Sadly, however, given the way the Party is currently going, I suspect this will not last much longer. Even more unfortunately, I am very reluctant to vote for anyone else – and am inclined to ask people why they think most Euro-sceptics are climate sceptics:
http://lackofenvironment.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/why-are-euro-sceptics-also-climate-sceptics/
The last 150 years or so has produced a great deal of ideologically-driven denial of inconvenient science on the basis of theological prejudice (e.g. evolution by creationists) or vested interests (e.g. health risks of smoking by tobacco companies).
Whether you like it or not, the scientific consensus is that humans are the primary cause post-Industrial warming of the planet. Rejecting the reality, reasonableness and/or reliability of this consensus can only be justified by believing most relevant researchers to have been either: (1) persistently stupid; (2) reaching unjustified conclusions, or (3) deliberately deceitful.
Since (1) is highly improbable and (2) would be highly irrational, this only leaves (3). However, given the track record that big corporate interests have for disputing inconvenient science (see above), there would appear to be a good case for invoking Occam’s Razor: i.e. accepting the simplest explanation that accords with historical facts and does not require the rejection of the last 150 years in the developmental understanding of atmospheric physics.
Thus, for all but those who invoke conspiracy theories (i.e. bedtime stories that make the World seem a much nicer place), the scientific consensus regarding the Sun appears perfectly reasonable:
(a) Whilst the Sun may help to explain gradual cooling since the end of the last Ice Age, it cannot explain mutli-decadal warming since the Industrial Revolution;
(b) Whilst natural climate forcings (i.e. the Sun, ocean circulation and volcanoes) may help to explain the slow down in warming since 1998, only anthropogenic influence can explain the record-breaking warmth of the last decade; and
(c) given (a) and (b), there is no rational basis for assuming that warming will not continue (unless humans take collective action to minimise it).
See: http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
The deceivers want to keep us all confused, confounded and ignorant, spread the words and let everyone know the truth. Theories are not facts, just a possible explanation, nothing more. Scientific laws do not change. When a law is ignored to support the theory of the carbon footprint, we must question why they do they lie?
Apart from a minor aberration between 1996 and 2003, I have been a life-long Conservative voter. Sadly, however, given the way the Party is currently going, I suspect this will not last much longer.
The last 150 years or so has produced a great deal of ideologically-driven disputation of inconvenient science on the basis of theological prejudice (e.g. evolution by creationists) or vested interests (e.g. health risks of smoking by tobacco companies).
Whether you like it or not, the scientific consensus is that humans are the primary cause of post-Industrial warming of the planet. Rejecting the reality, reasonableness and/or reliability of this consensus can only be justified by believing most relevant researchers to have been either: (1) persistently stupid; (2) reaching unjustified conclusions, or (3) deliberately deceitful.
Since (1) is highly improbable and (2) would be highly irrational, this only leaves (3). However, given the track record that big corporate interests have for disputing inconvenient science (see above), there would appear to be a good case for invoking Occam’s Razor: i.e. accepting the simplest explanation that accords with historical facts and does not require the rejection of the last 150 years in the developmental understanding of atmospheric physics:
— (a) Whilst the Sun may help to explain gradual cooling since the end of the last Ice Age, it cannot explain mutli-decadal warming since the Industrial Revolution;
— (b) Whilst natural climate forcings (i.e. the Sun, ocean circulation and volcanoes) may help to explain the slow down in warming since 1998, only anthropogenic influence can explain the record-breaking warmth of the last decade; and
— (c) Given (a) and (b), there is no rational basis for assuming that warming will not continue (unless humans take collective action to minimise it).
Ah yes. The Industrial Revolution. Which coincided with the end of the LIA. And what happens when one emerges from an Ice Age, great or small? It gets warmer. There, that wasn’t too hard.
Next?
The Industrial Revolution coincided with the beginning of a 40% increase in atmospheric CO2 and departure from 1 million years of oscillation between 180ppm (glacial) and 280ppm (interglacial).
Since the end of the last ice age – over the last 8k years – there has been an overall cooling trend and things like MWP and LIA. All of this is almost certainly due to long-term reductions in TSI and long-term cycles in Sunspot activity.
However, none of this changes the fact that the totality of post-Industrial warming cannot be fully explained without allowance for the anthropogenic addition of 40% CO2. We are therefore not just coming out of the LIA.
As has been said, “You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts”.
” totality of post-Industrial warming cannot be fully explained without allowance for the anthropogenic addition of 40% CO2″
Ludicrous – nobody knows enough about climate to “fully explain” changes of a fraction of a degree – the alarmists cannot fully explain the mediaval, roman and other warmings which happened before people started driving SUVs. This is the intellectual equivalent of saying conventional scientists cannot “fully explain” the occasional correlation between star signs and outcome (chance, by definition, not being a full explanation) and thus Astrology Scientists must be right. Actually of the 2 I would greatly prefer Astrology Scientists to “Climate Scientists” since they can make a living without public subsidy and can get the time right twice a day.
Bolleux as in gateaux.
25% of all human manufactured Co2 has been released in the last decade. Where is the warming?
Have you totally lost your objectivity?
The warming is mainly in the oceans (where they are not being cooled by melting ice).
Have you noticed that these warming oceans cover most of the surface of the planet and, as predicted by the basic Laws of Physics, have produced increased frequency and severity of extreme weather of all kinds over the last six decades.
search online for:
If the Earth had not warmed significantly in recent decades, there would not have been a sixfold increase in the global average rate at which ice is melting. Such exponential increase is not capable of explanation by natural forces alone. Conversely, the natural cooling forces do explain the temporary slow-down in warming (as they did in the 60s and 70s).
However, as then, so now, there is no Ice Age approaching.
What drivel. You throw out these quasi facts without any references.
Once again you start with an unsourced ‘factoid’ and build on it.
“The warming is mainly in the oceans (where they are not being cooled by melting ice).”
Unbelievable. So where is this next piece of drug induced imagination from then?
“If the Earth had not warmed significantly in recent decades, there would not have been a sixfold increase in the global average rate at which ice is melting. Such exponential increase is not capable of explanation by natural forces alone. Conversely, the natural cooling forces do explain the temporary slow-down in warming (as they did in the 60s and 70s).”
For me to be failing to be objective requires belief in conspiracy theory (i.e. most relevant scientists are mental, mistaken, or mendacious).
For you to be failing to be objective just requires an acceptance of historical facts (e.g. an exponential acceleration of ice melting over the last 20 years).
“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant are reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.”
Dr Michael Crichton
The scientists you refer to are thinking about the balance of probability based on a guess. Scientists generally don’t like to guess. With no empirical evidence or way to test the theory since the temperature stubbornly refuses to climb, add to the fact that 25% of all CO2 ever released by man has gone into the atmosphere in the last decade with the result of no warming, I just have to wonder how long you strange creatures can keep up the pretence.
My comments are now free of HTML links because those that contain them never appear.
Your initial premise is incorrect.
“Whether you like it or not, the scientific consensus is that humans are the primary cause of post-Industrial warming of the planet…”
Scientists engaged in climate research have never been asked this question. I suspect now that they never will. Such a question 5 years ago may have yielded a majority. But I repeat, such august bodies as the IPCC would not dare to ask an outright question like the one you say they answered, anymore.
Therefore your first statement takes you straight into the realms of fantasy.
You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
All energy in our Solar System originated with our Sun, some small amounts of this energy are found converted and stored on Earth. Most of it is latent heat in Oceans and Land Masses, some is stored longer term as oil, coal, plants, including wood. Man has found these sources useful in furthering his puny technologies. Once man has used this stored energy it’s converted into heat, and eventually re-radiated back into Space. All energy on this planet is transient over the longer term. Heat energy is found whenever any masses temperature is above absolute zero. Ice contains heat, and that is a hard truth for most of us to contemplate.
The Planet re-radiates most of its daily incoming heat at lower frequencies than the original source the Sun. Clouds (water vapor) insulate us from some of the Sun’s heat, this also conserves heat resulting in some temperate zones. This works more or less equally with both incoming and outgoing energy.
Eventually every bit of the Suns energy will be exhausted, the Earth will also have given up its energy, radiated back into space. Quite egalitarian in a way, all energy will thus be shared equally throughout the Universe as it finally dies.
IF this Planet’s climate has been changing one should indeed ask,” What happened”? The answer to all variations must be tied to Sun spot activity and variations in its radiated energy. Chasing false theories that need to be evermore complicated is a fools journey.
This is how I see the energy system works, I welcome constructive comment and logical correction within the laws of physics, not emotion please.
There are some clues to that in this 1999 essay.
Good essay Gerry.
Thank you Roger. Explained as you have above I now will buy the book and read it all myself. On the subject of Kindles may I support your statement re illustrative graphs and indeed any extra matter such as bibliography, notes, appendices? A Kindle is just not the vehicle for any written material which might necessitate a looking back or forward to illustrations whilst engaged in reading text. It is too frustrating. A book is called for. I now only use my Kindle for novels or unillustrated material. In these cases I love it.
Instrumentation is out there, similarly here on the planet. So why is it that the IPCC cherry pick as determined by the UN? Its all about the CO2 actor – just that. This planet itself emits CO2 (+more) without the assistance of us and forever will do in variable amounts.
We swing round the Sun and that would not be on identical paths nor would the precession be identical to other swings – more variables. Not in the IPCC remit though,
The above is the simple stuff I think, but appears not required/important ?
Whats Guido on about today Roger?
It is not difficult to see a strong correlation between the sun and climate. For example, consider the following graph:-
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1850/mean:50/normalise/plot/sidc-ssn/from:1850/mean:50/offset:-40/integral/normalise
The graph above shows the correlation between global temperature and the *integral* of sunspot count, a proxy for solar activity. The idea of using the integral is to model the impact of solar activity on the Earth as being analogous to a gas burner under a pot of water. Turning the burner up does not cause the water to boil immediately, instead it changes the rate at which the water heats.
Add to this evidence that the sun was more active in the 20th century than at any time since the dawn of civilisation – an 8000 year solar grand maximum http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/solanki2004/solanki2004.html – and that now temperatures and solar activity are dropping, and it is not difficult to see that an imminent and drastic fall in temperature is likely to occur.
So drastic I packed my family off to the lovely Fraser Coast – 25 degrees South of the equator, with the option of, if all else fails, walking to within 17 degrees of the equator.
Anybody like to comment on tonights BBC4 Horizon – Solar Storms
Seems we (they) don’t know about the Sun too much other than its going to fry our carrier electrics and sink the monitoring satellite instrumentation systems. EMC beyond imagination …well I never,
Climate impact was not mentioned, major interference with Oxygen and Nitrogen was….what about our old minor friend?
I watched The Horizon TV program at a pals house, it is the heating of the upper atmosphere that intrigues me using radio transmissions. This changes the density of the gas were our satellites might be affected by solar flares, fascinating but, this is what the Harp project is doing? What is the real purpose of Harp? It is very much larger than the Danish system.
They won’t. Much like Catholic church officials who refused to look through Galileo’s telescope because it was the devil’s instrument they will refuse to look at anything that contradicts their world view. They’re very settled in their science.
Now that Co2 is not to blame for climate change all we need is cheaper coal for generation plus gas for heat with additional shale where possible . Problem solved without EU interference .
There is no “without eu interference”.
Are all my comments going to get stuck in the moderation queue (or just those with HTML links)…?
OK, Roger, this is a start. I trust I can look forward to both of ymy comments posted yestarday (with HTML links) now appearing. Yours hopefully, Martin.
Try this one Marty.
“Working Group I: The Scientific Basis
14.2.2.2 Balancing the need for finer scales and the need for ensembles
In sum, a strategy must recognise what is possible. In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible. ………………..”
OK future climate states not predictable……..
Newsreaders happily regurgitating nonsense like “climate change is responsible says the met office” in one breath and then “this is the worst for 250 years”
These two statements are plainly contradictory.
So what? Science is complicated (unless you think it is a conspiracy). Stick to Table SPM1, it deals with historical facts (even infants can understand).
Staggering stupidity. Summary For Policymakers.
Well recognised by the scientific community to have been written not by scientists but by those with an agenda.
Scientists disagree with what is written there.
Mathematically if you don’t know and haven’t any data you can’t make up a probability.
No wonder you are ‘the converted’ jees, don’t you know anything?
Some of the perpetual motion machines are also complicated. Any physicist will say without examining the device or it drawings, that it will never work. It breaks the laws of physics just as the Global Warming theory did.
What desperation that it has been morphed into climate change, and now into climate chaos.
It’s all down to the sun!
All opinions are not equally valid; and yours appear to necessitate believing that the conclusions of 150 years of peer-reviewed atmospheric physics can be dismissed as guesswork. That is what I call staggering stupidity.
150 years of peer reviewed….. peer review is just someone else’s opinion. Jees that’s as bad as consensus! As Albert Einstein said, I don’t care that they all disagree, let one of them prove it. Anyway AGW was preceded by the same consensus for the next ice age.
Only politicians look for consensus not scientists!
In this case there isn’t the empirical data. Wherever you turn there is no evidence, just bloody computer models 36 out of 38 of which have been proved utterly wrong, so if the models don’t get it right it means flawed theory! The warming of the 70’s to 90’s is easily explained using sun cycles. As was the cooling before it and after it.
CO2 has an effect but it is limited…..if it was important then they’d be doing something about it like threatening to nuke Brazil or Indonesia for chopping down rain forests. They’d be wandering the oceans with bulk carriers full of iron filings…….but they’re not because it isn’t the CO2 that’s the problem.
Look if there were an alternative available to burning coal/oil/gas then I’d be all for it. The problem is that the green lobby screwed the nuclear industry -in this country at least.
Fossil fuels are precious because of the wealth of hydrocarbons they contain. We shouldn’t be burning them if can avoid it.
The idiots that purport human inspired climate change don’t try to mitigate it they just tax people and scaremonger. Chucking windmills at the problem is not ans answer it’s stupidity!
Thanks Gerry, this shows the mindset of the Prof Jones and his fellow conspirators. Hiding behind the Data Protection act to cover their deception.
The only people with ‘an agenda’ are the government-appointed reviewers who have spent most of the last 25 years trying (and generally succeeding) to water-down the policy impact of IPCC reports.
The IPCC is a government-sanctioned (and interfered with) data gathering exercise that is wholly reliant upon the unpaid work of thousands of members of the scientific community to write, read, and review the reports it produces.
As such, your remarks are entirely counter-factual: The only members of the scientific community that dispute the reality, reliability and/or reasonableness of the consensus are a few dozen that are paid to do so by those with a vested interest in policy paralysis.
Industry has a clear track record of disputing inconvenient science. As such, it is very ironic that US President George W Bush should have said, “Fool my once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!”
You seem incapable of understanding a basic truth. Consensus is not a scientific thing, it is a political thing. Whenever I hear the old shout of ‘the scientific consensus’ I know I am not talking to or about scientists, just politicians.
Your bizarre reference to business leading the sceptical side of the argument is laughable given the zillions invested in renewables, just risible.
Any chance we could have a whip round and get HRH a copy.
Not only do the warmists refuse to look at the solar evidence, they are busy tryng to stop anyone else looking at it too. The research group I’m a member of put together a special edition of a journal called Pattern Recognition in Physics at the end of last year which looks at the causes of solar variation and the Sun-Earth climate connection. I contributed two of the papers. There are 19 signatures on the general conclusions paper, nearly all of them from well regarded and prominently published experts.
Because our general conclusions paper stated that due to the imminent solar slowdown, the was doubt about the IPCC’s projection of accelerated warming, pressure was put on the journal’s publisher by IPCC author James Annan and others. In an act of anti-scientific cowardice, Copernicus, the publisher, axed the entire journal. In the email they sent the Chief editors (Who have around 600 peer reviewed papers between them), Martin Rasmussen said they were “alarmed” by our conclusion and that was the reason for shutting PRP down. He later added spurious nonsense about the special issue being beyond the aims and scope of the journal, and also made an entirely unsupported allegation about our peer review process being “nepotistic”.
The chief editor is in the process of re-opening the journal elsewhere. In the meantime all our papers are still available at the original Copernicus PRP website, although it is not possible to conduct the normal scientific process of comment and rebuttal there. http://www.pattern-recogn-phys.net/special_issue2.html
As the UKIP spokesman for Yorks & N. Lincs, I’m really pleased to see Roger Helmer giving prominence to Frtz Vahrenholts book. The Sun is the neglected climate parameter. As a scientist, I’m proud to have published alongside some great names in the astrophysics and geoscience fields. Our research shows that future solar activity levels are predictable with some level of confidence. The IPCC doesn’t want a reliable solar prediction on the table, as it will change the whole dynamic of the climate debate. That, I believe, is the real reason our work has been suppressed.
Hi Roger, since you could not falsify my logical arguments on Twitter, perhaps you would care to try here? Please see my response to Brin jenkins above (which has appeared because I re-posted it without links or possibly ‘blacklisted’ words).
Use of the term “warmists” would imply irrational belief. Unfortunately for you, this is an inversion of reality (as before, see above).
I agree that using the term warmists is as inflammatory as using the words climate deniers or sceptics.
These words are specifically engineered to wind people of opposing views up and should be avoided in serious debate.
As to your comments above they have no facts to dispute, merely assertions in a bulleted statement.
“Warmist” merely means somebody who believes manmade warming to a serious extent is taking place – in what way is that pejorative? “Alarmist” while I believe it factually correct, could give offence. “Sceptic” should actually be positive to anybody who has an understanding of scientific principles, though I am sure some warmists don’t feel that way. “Denier” is deliberately offensive – while everybody denies something (some warmists deny the cooling scare ever happened) the term is used to falsely imply a link with Holocaust deniers and is thus a breach of Godwin’s Law & intended to prevent debate.
Disagree. You are being simplistic if you don’t think that calling someone who believes in AGW a ‘warmist’ is not inflammatory. Your logic implodes in the face of reality.
Same way to call someone a ‘denialist’ is inflammatory in the real world. I don’t agree with Martin Lack at all but I do understand English well enough to know when a word is used like a spear thrust to prod a response, so dismount from whatever horse you’re on and face reality, afterall that’s what you want the AGW brigade to do.
Me_Again I note you disagree that calling somebody who promotes the idea of warming as a warmist but have omitted to say why which makes consideration of your objection difficult.
I must therefore remain of the opinion that it is simply a factual, non pejorative, description to which no reasonable objection, or more descriptive alternative can be raised. However if you have an alternative which is more directly descriptive, and not value loaded, I await hearing it.
I already said, using terms like that for either side of the argument is inflammatory and not constructive.
Applying labels to people who support one or the other side of a dispute/argument/hypothesis is always combative.
Part of the problem is and has been that both sides of this debate took about 2.9 microseconds to become as intractable and entrenched as Labour vs Tories, and with the same amount of flexibility and willingness to consider things objectively.
Ergo nothing happens except more trench warfare which as we all know achieves nothing but casualties.
So starting out with the label Warmist, Denier, or Sceptic is counter productive in the long run, the short run and the middle game.
Can I make it any clearer?
If it is decided it is inpermissable to say what sides people are taking I think “making it any clearer” is beyond possibility – that is simply a formula for obfuscation, which we have had more than enough of. You would obviously not expect me to agree that any significant number of people on the sceptic side are “intractable and entrenched”, indeed that is as offensive as any epithet but “denier”. On the other hand, not being entrenched yourself, you would recognise that a number of alarmists, including the Met Office, who, when asked, have said that no sort of evidence of a lack of warming could convince them that CAGW was not taking place, whci is pretty much a definition of “intractable and entrenched”. Thus your alternative to a definition is, itself, more offensive & less accurate than my definition.
In the real world we use language to define things – there is no alternative. We should try yo keep the definitions accurate and not loaded.
Neil, go and take another tablet….maybe two or three.
I should have said I am ‘UKIP energy and climate change spokesman for Yorks and N. Lincs’. Apologies
Reblogged this on Tallbloke's Talkshop and commented:
UKIP MEP Roger Helmer has been reading De Kalte Sonne and takes warmist ignorance to task…
Showing off your language skills, tallbloke! 😉
Not so much.
It’s Die Kalte Sonne, not De Kalte Sonne. Really.
Ooops, my bad.
Hey Roger H! How about approving Nicola Scafetta’s comment? He was a contributor to Die Kalte Sonne after all. 😉
Here’s a copy you can remove after you get a round tuit.
“I need to agree with Roger that “Not only do the warmists refuse to look at the solar evidence, they are busy trying to stop anyone else looking at it too.”
Copernicus shutting down of the entire journal “Pattern Recognition in Physics” because published some papers arguing that the warming projected by the IPCC is exaggerated (a fact already argued in numerous papers present in the scientific literature) has been quite shameful. It will be remembered in the future because motivated by purely ideological and political convenience, which have nothing to do with science.
James Annan and others were likely responsible for the action, as Annan states in his blog here:
http://julesandjames.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/recognising-pattern.html
The strategy adopted by the warmists for manipulating the scientific debate can be clearly deduced from this climate-gate email: http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/0332.txt
To know more about the sun-climate interaction you can look at my web-site where numerous papers can be downloaded.
For a simple general introduction to the theory I am proposing read my PRP paper:
Scafetta, N.: The complex planetary synchronization structure of the solar system, Pattern Recogn. Phys., 2, 1-19, doi:10.5194/prp-2-1-2014, 2014.
Click to access prp-2-1-2014.pdf
Here it is argued that the solar system is highly synchronized because characterized by a specific set of gravitational and electromagnetic harmonics that are then found in both solar and climate records. These harmonics regulate the natural variability of the climate that the current IPCC climate model do not capture. So, these harmonics can be used to produce more accurate projections for the 21st century, which imply half of the warming currently projected by the IPCC. This result was published in numerous paper of mine and is the main conclusion of Vahrenholt’s excellent book.”
For those who don’t know, the English translation of Die Kalte Sonne was done by Pierre Gosselin, an American living in Germany; he has his blog at http://www.notrickszone.com .
He frequently translates German blog posts by Vahrenholt and Lüning as they appear.
Easy to agree with the sun being the responsible party wrt warming & cooling & extreme weather events. Personally found lots of evidence for all of the above, and putting it together in video form, from an engineering standpoint. Notice Al Gore lives in “oppositeville”: he says “sunspots, bs” – it is sunspots; he says AGW causes extreme weather events – solar activity causes extreme weather events. It’s photons, protons, and electrons from solar activity that do the work, not CO2.
For a basic primer on the solar question, interested individuals may consider a 1977 BBC gem called “The Sunspot Mystery”, found at my channel here: http://youtu.be/v3frXY_rG8c
Tallbloke & Co’s work is very important and I’m pleased to see it will continue.
It’s an excellent book, highly accessible to a lay person such as myself, and I would recommend it to anyone wanting to more know about real climate science. Whilst I’m here, I’d also highly recommend Rupert Darwall’s “The Age of Global Warming: A History” which relates how we got into this sorry mess.
About Vahrenholt’s book, it is a very good book and I gave a contribution to it.
I need to agree with Roger that “Not only do the warmists refuse to look at the solar evidence, they are busy trying to stop anyone else looking at it too.” Copernicus shutting down of the entire journal “Pattern Recognition in Physics” because published some papers arguing that the warming projected by the IPCC is exaggerated (a fact already argued in numerous papers present in the scientific literature) has been quite shameful. It will be remembered in the future because motivated by purely ideological and political convenience, which have nothing to do with science.
James Annan and other were likely responsible for the action, as Annan states in his blog here:
http://julesandjames.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/recognising-pattern.html
The strategy adopted by the warmists for manipulating the scientific debate can be clearly deduced from this climate-gate email: http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/0332.txt
To know more about the sun-climate interaction you can look at my web-site where numerous papers can be downloaded.
For a simple general introduction to the theory I am proposing read my PRP paper:
Scafetta, N.: The complex planetary synchronization structure of the solar system, Pattern Recogn. Phys., 2, 1-19, doi:10.5194/prp-2-1-2014, 2014.
Click to access prp-2-1-2014.pdf
Here it is argued that the solar system is highly synchronized because characterized by a specific set of gravitational and electromagnetic harmonics that are then found in both solar and climate records. These harmonics regulate the natural variability of the climate that the current IPCC climate model do not capture. So, these harmonics can be used to produce more accurate projections for the 21st century, which imply half of the warming currently projected by the IPCC. This result was published in numerous paper of mine and is the main conclusion of Vahrenholt’s excellent book.
Followed the link to James Annan’s site. Surveying his posts on the PRP thread leads me to conclude that he is an abusive misanthrope with serious psychological problems. I’d love to see his emails. He’s grotesque in public, I can easily see him going all 10:10 (John Gotti-esque) in private.
Without the sun, I believe the earth’s tempertaure would be at absolute zero, or -459.6 deg F. With gross solar influence of this magnitude, it seems irrational that anyone attempting to predict earth temperature would ignore varability in solar parameters affecting temperature. I wonder if any of the computer models include such effects?
Given the potential significance of the results, it seems to me the computer predictions must be validated by their authors AND the results openly displayed. I suspect these models are integrating partial-differential equaions numerically with small time steps into the future. If this is the case, then each modeler should change the algebraic sign of his/her time step, and then generate, and make generally available, predictions of historical temperatures going backwards through at least the 20th century. Have any of them done this sort of validation? And made it available?
If you would like to know exactly why the Sun drives climate and how and why it is gravity trapping thermal energy throughout the universe I will give you a brief summary of what is in my new book “Why it’s not carbon dioxide after all” available soon on Amazon.
The original Clausius (hot to cold) statement of the Second Law of Thermodynamics applies to radiative heat transfers and also to non-radiative heat transfers in a horizontal plane where there is no change in gravitational potential energy. Physicists have realised that the Clausius statement is limited and the more general form of the law pertains to entropy. The law actually describes an evolving process whereby entropy will increase until it reaches a maximum determined by the constraints of the isolated system being considered. That state is thermodynamic equilibrium which is not necessarily an isothermal state. Rather it is a state of homogeneous total energy wherein there are thus no unbalanced energy potentials. In the absence of chemical reactions and any phase change, we need only consider the (gravitational) potential energy (PE) and the kinetic energy (KE) the mean of the latter enabling a temperature measurement. So at thermodynamic equilibrium (the state which the Second Law says will evolve spontaneously) there will be homogeneous (PE+KE) and this implies a temperature gradient equal to -g/Cp where g is the acceleration due to gravity and Cp the weighted mean specific heat. This temperature gradient (aka “lapse rate”) would be observed in a pure non-radiating gas, but inter-molecular radiation between so called greenhouse gas molecules has a temperature levelling effect (opposing the gravity gradient) and so the wet gradient is less steep, as is well known.
By the way, the attempts to disprove the above-mentioned Loschmidt gravity gradient are all flawed because they overlook the fact that the temperature gradient occurs in solids, liquids and gases, so a wire also has a gradient and no perpetual energy circulation happens.
Now all the above implies that an autonomous temperature gradient will be maintained in a planet’s atmosphere. But how, on Uranus for example, does the solar energy which is nearly all absorbed by the methane layer near its TOA move down into warmer regions? This “heat creep” process, as I call it in the book, is a direct corollary of the Second Law process whereby thermodynamic equilibrium evolves. When newly absorbed energy disturbs that equilibrium, that new energy will spread out in all accessible directions (like new rainwater in the middle of a lake) because that is how thermodynamic equilibrium will be restored. This process explains the temperature gradients observed in all planetary atmospheres, crusts and deeper sub-surface regions. That, in fact, is what keeps Earth’s core hot, and that of our Moon.
The temperature plot in the atmosphere thus has a pre-determined gradient, whilst its overall level is set by the need for radiative balance. Where the plot intersects Earth’s surface determines the “supporting” temperature which, as is observed, slows surface cooling in the early pre-dawn hours. This means all climate change is caused, not by back radiation, but by natural variations in the overall level of the temperature plot. Local variations, such as those due to variable water vapour levels, are shown in a study in the Appendix to lead to cooler mean daily maximum and minimum temperatures in the more moist regions. Water vapour and all GH gases cause cooler surface temperatures because the temperature plot rotates in order to maintain radiative balance. However the total cooling effect of carbon dioxide is less than a tenth of a degree.
The kindle that you got is great for reading on a beach or in bed -novels or monochrome- but the kindle HD is the one for colour charts and illustrations. I just got one for my birthday and for a councillor its great. I take it to meetings, use it as a diary a reference source, note taker, open ‘office’ docs. The work apps are amazing and cheap. I also get to read technical docs and see piccys in colour. It’s portable and powerful and I believe is the replacement to the ‘filofax’ -can you remember them? Everything you need for an office in a folder?
When is your birthday?
Consideration as to the validity of the gravitationally induced temperature gradient is of vital importance to understanding what is happening in Earth’s troposphere, and why it is the Sun that controls temperatures.
Anyone is entitled to disagree with the brilliant 19th century physicist, Loschmidt if you so choose, but you can’t prove him wrong, whereas I have proved him correct. And no, the WUWT article which ran a wire up the outside of a cylinder did not rebut it because the wire also develops a temperature gradient which prevents perpetual energy circulation.
The temperature gradient results from a diffusion process and does not require any upward convection. More often than not the new energy absorbed in higher, cooler regions actually can move downwards towards warmer regions if it is restoring thermodynamic equilibrium. I call this “heat creep” because it is a slow process that can be dominated by high levels of absorption, such as in Earth’s stratosphere and ocean thermoclines.
So I’m not talking about convection or pressure or solid surfaces absorbing solar radiation. I am asking anyone to explain why the base of the Uranus troposphere (altitude -300Km) is 320K according to Wikipedia (Uranus / Troposphere) as there is no surface there, no incident solar radiation, no internal energy generation and no reason for any net upward convection.
” Uranus’s heat flux is only 0.042 ± 0.047 W/m2″
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus
Furthermore, there is very close to perfect energy balance at TOA according to measurements from Voyager 2, so any internally generated thermal energy, which some seem to think is responsible for maintaining the 5,000K temperature in the small solid core (thousands of Km below the troposphere) would be far less than 0.042W/m^2. That’s a tall ask for so little energy. And it’s got to keep all that atmosphere hot too, or so they seem to think.
Now consider Venus. Its surface cools by about 5 degrees during its 4-month-long night. So its internal energy is not succeeding in keeping its surface at around 730K. But for the Sun’s energy, it could easily have cooled right down in a few centuries. (So too could Uranus.) But the Sun’s energy raises the temperature of the Venus surface by 5 degrees spread over the course of the next 4-month-long Venus day. But it cannot do that by direct radiation which is less than 20W/m^2.
For the back radiation enthusiasts, such back radiation coming from that initial new solar energy would also be less than 20W/m^2. But you would need over 16,000W/m^2 of direct radiation to actually raise the temperature. That’s about five times the Solar energy that even reaches TOA, so obviously the energy cannot be amplified within the Venus atmosphere.
The required energy does not come from radiation at all. Nor does pressure create energy and we have no reason to believe the pressure changes much at the surface anyway. For any increase there would be a cancelling decrease, and thus no net change in temperature due to pressure changes.
So can anyone else explain Venus and Uranus temperatures?
Limogerry. I am with Martin Lack on this. No amount of offensive language from you will make you right.
Incredible! I agree with Catalan Brian. I do understand Limo’s frustration though. Unfortunately all repetition-ists believe consensus amongst the converts makes good science. It is never science when a cause and its effect are reversed in support of any theory.
Limo, forget Martin Lack. He lacks basic understanding of the scientific method, this lack of sensible methodology leads to frustration among those who are at least not lacking when it comes to trying make sense of this. The general lack of empirical evidence to support computer models -plainly lacking variable criteria input- merely compounds the lack of a sensible approach to the analysis of available data. This serious lack of pin-the-tail-on-the donkey evidence leads to a self fulfilling prophesy approach in those lacking in basic understanding.
Sanity implies dealing with reality, which you obviously cannot. If you don’t like what you read and see here, you’re not obligated to look. Meanwhile, why don’t you pull your head out of your butt and go read some real science instead of regurgitating the sewage emanating from the IPCC and it’s Agenda 21 lackey organizations?
Your LACK of perspicacity in working out who supports your general position and who doesn’t, is typical of those wearing blinkers -regardless of their starting viewpoint.
Worse still your LACK of appreciation for a series of puns indicate a distinct LACK of humour.
I’d love to see things from your perspective but I LACK the ability to shove head that far up my ass -to use one of yours……….
Thanks, Me_Again, nice pun while you’re at it. Meanwhile CB bleats about the language and Lack twists cause and effect and the truth like a pretzel. Nothing more than sad trolls still pushing on the wagon after the wheels fall off. They remind me of the Japanese patriot found hiding on an island many decades after Japan had surrendered.I don’t expect Lack or CB to actually read this, but it’s not for them. If they haven’t seen the light by now, well their heads are just that firmly stuck. Enjoy, and pass it on. Thanks.again.
Yes, the thing is I started off on the environmental side of the fence when it was to do with stopping farmers filling streams with silage, stopping tankers flushing their tanks at sea, trying to get rivers clean so that fish were found in them, converting farmer s by logic from intensive farming to harmony farming. All laudible and all taken over by AGW nutjobs.
I know they are not serious when they don’t threaten to nuke Brazil or Indonesia if they don’t stop chopping down rain forest [different to logging in N America] at a rate the size of Wales every year. They even have climate conferences in one of the biggest despoilers countries. Ah but it’s ok because they are one of the BRICS – makes the holes in the ground fill themselves and the trees grow again I guess.
If they were serious about CO2 they’d be out there in tankers on the pelagic ocean spaces dumping the odd thousand tons of sequestered iron to cause algal blooms which eat CO2. I forget who said it but there was a great quote ‘Give me a tanker full of iron filings and I’ll give you an ice age!’ Not true either but it goes to show they aren’t serious. All they want to do is tax ordinary people and keep them frightened.
They are just not serious.
That’s about the size of it. The very idea that centuries of dredging waterways was all a waste of time, and it would have made no difference is beyond belief. The oldies were not idiots.
Brin you might want to have a look at Tallbloke’s blog.
Apparently they stopped a lot of pumping in 2007-2008. This was because a royal ordinance factory [ROF37] closed down. They used to use oudles of water for the manuf of RDX. They apparently held meetings with the EA about them taking over the pumping of the artificial drains made to help the factory. Something about a King’s drain or something? Anyway apparently the EA weren’t bleeding interested in the pumping and he isn’t surprised things have silted up big time.
Lack, did you write your own synopsis, or did you have your cat do it for you?
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1nydmp9urvQC&dq=%28Christopher+Chope%2C+Peter+Lilley%2C+and+Andrew+Tyrie%29&q=
Excuse me, but does this guy sound like a bit of a kook?
Lack, did you write your own synopsis, or did you have your cat do it for you?
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1nydmp9urvQC&dq=%28Christopher+Chope%2C+Peter+Lilley%2C+and+Andrew+Tyrie%29&q=
No amount of truth will make you open your eyes-the osrtrich approach to science and debate. Honestly, I’m trying to see things from your point of view…
https://www.google.ca/search?q=head+up+ass&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:%7Breferrer:source%7D&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UL0AU5_GOtLaoATH24LgBg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=923#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=-UUJUUqYTxr0lM%253A%3BznCQsLJwJ8nKeM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.crowdfundingguide.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F08%252Fhead-up-ass.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.crowdfundingguide.com%252Fblah-blah-blah-blah-blah-the-gao-bobs-and-weaves-through-the-latest-alternative-accreditation-debate%252F%3B580%3B357
Roger Helmer. May I suggest that you stop this man from posting his offensive rants on your blog. He is clearly insane and I am not sure that you want this sort of thing to reflect on you.
Bit sad that he’s LACKing in humour Brian.
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evenAnother peer-reviewed article that proves AGW is nothing more than a scare.
It seems many posters here are fascinated by the use of consensus as if it has anything to do with science. Consensus is irrelevant to science as long as there is even one good experiment based on good empirical evidence that invalidates the theory, it is invalidated no question.
What this article I’m going to post did we use the empirical evidence to compared to the IPCC projections based on the computer models with faked data in them.
The models also overstate feedbacks and actually turn them into positive feedbacks rather than negative feedbacks in terms of forcing radiation trapping by carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide only traps a very narrow band and satellite telemetry now shows that there is just about inexact balance of energy leaving the earth’s energy hitting the earth, which means there’s no warming from carbon dioxide forcing.
Even nine IPCC so-called scientist tried to tank the article but could not since the science and the empirical data the article is based upon is in questionable.
http://phys.org/news/2015-01-peer-reviewed-pocket-calculator-climate-exposes-errors.html
SEveral English errors in my post, please delete and use this one.
Another peer-reviewed article that proves AGW is nothing more than a scare.
It seems many posters here are fascinated by the use of consensus as if it has anything to do with science. Consensus is irrelevant to science as long as there is even one good experiment based on good empirical evidence that invalidates the theory, it is invalidated no question.
What this article I’m going to post did was use the empirical evidence (temp data) to compare to the IPCC projections based on the computer models with faked data in them.
The models also overstate feedbacks and actually turn them into positive feedbacks rather than negative feedbacks in terms of forcing radiation trapping by carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide only traps a very narrow band and satellite telemetry now shows that there is just about an exact balance of energy leaving the with earth’s energy hitting the earth, which means there’s no warming from carbon dioxide forcing.
Even one IPCC so-called scientist tried to tank the article but could not since the science and the empirical data the article is based upon is in unquestionable.
http://phys.org/news/2015-01-peer-reviewed-pocket-calculator-climate-exposes-errors.html
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